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Spoilers Marvel's Echo on Disney+

evilchumlee said:
Given that Daredevil is IN this show, as well as Kingpin... not to mention that by most reports, Daredevil has essentially been shot already... I really don't think this is the case.

Now, rumor has it that Feige... hated what he saw of the Daredevil show, so that might possibly play something more of a factor.

I can reserve judgement until the end. Maybe they will do something impressive, like the Daredevil show being something akin to a mini-Defenders type thing, bringing in a few characters from the new mature arm of the MCU.
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Not a rumour. In September they let the writers and directors go, brought in new ones and revamped it. Saying "Daredevil has essentially been shot already" shows a gross misunderstanding of, well, everything.

As well, D'Onofrio has stated that story elements from Echo are setting up things in Daredevil. So Echo had to come first, regardless, since also, that's how stories work.

As what was already mentioned, there is a LOT of behind the scenes stuff that go into making anything. Saying "I want this tomorrow" doesn't make it so, not even close.
 
evilchumlee said:
Given that Daredevil is IN this show, as well as Kingpin... not to mention that by most reports, Daredevil has essentially been shot already... I really don't think this is the case.
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You're woefully misinformed. A quick glance at Wikipedia establishes that Echo was filmed from April-August 2022. Daredevil: Born Again didn't begin filming until March 2023 and was shut down by the writers' strike in May 2023. In September 2023, as M'rk said, they shut down production for a revamp with less than half of the season filmed, and did not resume filming until at least December.

And yes, Daredevil is in this show, but as I said, it obviously takes less time to plan and pre-produce a 5-episode series than an 18-episode one.
 
Unimatrix Q said:
Are Daredevil and the other Marvel shows, formerly on Netflix, now a part of the MCU?
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Grendelsbayne said:
It remains to be determined conclusively.
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According to, or more accurately in opinion of, long-time Marvel producer Brad Winderbaum, the Netflix shows absolutely ARE a part of the sacred timeline/Earth 616. He states that they were previously "cagey" about committing to that because, at the time, they were unsure as to how well what was established on Netflix would fit in with their own plans. Now that he has seen "how well the stories integrate", he personally has no issues with declaring the Netflix shows to be MCU canon.

https://screenrant.com/netflix-dare...medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=Twitter
 
Turtletrekker said:
According to, or more accurately in opinion of, long-time Marvel producer Brad Winderbaum, the Netflix shows absolutely ARE a part of the sacred timeline/Earth 616. He states that they were previously "cagey" about committing to that because, at the time, they were unsure as to how well what was established on Netflix would fit in with their own plans. Now that he has seen "how well the stories integrate", he personally has no issues with declaring the Netflix shows to be MCU canon.
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That's good to hear. Hopefully that view will prevail and we'll get to see more of the cast members return.
 
Turtletrekker said:
According to, or more accurately in opinion of, long-time Marvel producer Brad Winderbaum, the Netflix shows absolutely ARE a part of the sacred timeline/Earth 616. He states that they were previously "cagey" about committing to that because, at the time, they were unsure as to how well what was established on Netflix would fit in with their own plans. Now that he has seen "how well the stories integrate", he personally has no issues with declaring the Netflix shows to be MCU canon.

https://screenrant.com/netflix-dare...medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=Twitter
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Superb news, hope he's right.
 
Turtletrekker said:
Wow. I think that that trailer definitely answers the Netflix canon question, even more than Winderbaum's personal opinion.
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Eh . . . quite possibly, but I really wouldn't take it as read given that this is essentially a promo for Disney+ first and foremost, so of course it talks up the inherent connection between it's other shows and this imminent release. Such things are typically put together by a whole other part of the company and can be misleading.
Like I said a week or three back though; in the end the details don't matter so much so long as the characters remain true to themselves. I know that won't stop the wiki editors getting all excited (bless them) but here we are all the same.
 
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Reverend said:
Eh . . . quite possibly, but I really wouldn't take it as read given that this is essentially a promo for Disney+ first and foremost, so of course it talks up the inherent connection between it's other shows and this imminent release. Such things are typically put together by a whole other part of the company and can be misleading.
Like I said a week or three back though; in the end the details don't matter so much so long as the characters remain true to themselves. I know that won't stop the wiki editors getting all excited (bless them) but here we are all the same.
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A pragmatic response that I largely agree with. But, at the same time, my optimistic side is full of glee at the strong possibility that Echo and Born Again are closely aligned with the Netflix series.
 
That new preview definitely gives the impression that they're using the Netflix show as art of Kingpin's backstory, hopefully that really is the case.
Christopher said:
And I've already said why I don't think that's a reasonable interpretation. There are many different factors that affect timing and scheduling, like actor/creator availability and the fact that a larger project would take more time to write and plan. So there's no reason to assume they could have gotten the Daredevil show out first. Presumably they're doing the best they can to balance all the factors and come up with a schedule that gets everything out as soon as it's feasible to do so. Scheduling is a complicated process and they wouldn't arbitrarily leave a hole in the schedule by delaying something they didn't have to.
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I was wondering if there also could be something left from the Netflix contract that said that Marvel couldn't do any shows based on their characters until a certain amount of time had passed.
 
Reverend said:
Eh . . . quite possibly, but I really wouldn't take it as read given that this is essentially a promo for Disney+ first and foremost, so of course it talks up the inherent connection between it's other shows and this imminent release. Such things are typically put together by a whole other part of the company and can be misleading.
Like I said a week or three back though; in the end the details don't matter so much so long as the characters remain true to themselves. I know that won't stop the wiki editors getting all excited (bless them) but here we are all the same.
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Well, sure, but I think that at this point more factors point to it being the case than not. It certainly is much more fun if it is so. At this point, I can't see any real reason to not embrace the notion.
 
JD said:
I was wondering if there also could be something left from the Netflix contract that said that Marvel couldn't do any shows based on their characters until a certain amount of time had passed.
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Netflix didn't produce the shows, though. Marvel Television made them, and Netflix just distributed them. The characters belong to Marvel, as they always have; distribution rights are not the same thing as ownership. Sure, IIRC they had exclusive rights to carry the shows for something like 3 years after the deal ended, which is why they didn't show up on Disney+ until then, but I don't think that would've extended to embargoing new productions featuring the characters.

And even if there was, it would've expired by the time Charlie Cox appeared as Matt Murdock in Spider-Man: No Way Home in 2021 and in She-Hulk in late '22. So there's no reason it would've precluded a Daredevil show coming out last year if it had been feasible to do one then.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
A pragmatic response that I largely agree with. But, at the same time, my optimistic side is full of glee at the strong possibility that Echo and Born Again are closely aligned with the Netflix series.
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I'm just tempering expectations a little since it may not come to anything concrete, and it'd be a shame if the show suffers in people's eyes because of a lack of solid continuity ties. This is Maya's story after all, and I prefer to let it be itself on it's own terms. Yes it's nice to think of the old Netflix shows being brought in, but that'd be the icing on cake, not the cake itself.
We still have a Daredevil show to look forward to after-all, so if anything is going to solidly link back to the other Netflix shows, it's that one.
 
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The Nth Doctor said:
On that, I absolutely agree. I think that extends towards expectations for Born Again, too.
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For sure. I see absolutely no reason why 'Born Again' has to make any direct references to the events of any of the Netflix shows, not even it's own progenitor beyond the most general core aspects of Matt's backstory which would be the same no matter the incarnation.

It would be nice if it did (done right), but it's by no means essential, let alone a foregone conclusion.
 
If Echo and Born Again do use the Netflix show as part of their backstory, then I'm curious if Echo will show what Maya was doing during the events of the Netflix show. And I really hope Born Again at least does something to establish why Foggy and Karen aren't involved with Matt anymore.
Christopher said:
Netflix didn't produce the shows, though. Marvel Television made them, and Netflix just distributed them. The characters belong to Marvel, as they always have; distribution rights are not the same thing as ownership. Sure, IIRC they had exclusive rights to carry the shows for something like 3 years after the deal ended, which is why they didn't show up on Disney+ until then, but I don't think that would've extended to embargoing new productions featuring the characters.

And even if there was, it would've expired by the time Charlie Cox appeared as Matt Murdock in Spider-Man: No Way Home in 2021 and in She-Hulk in late '22. So there's no reason it would've precluded a Daredevil show coming out last year if it had been feasible to do one then.
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I wasn't sure if maybe it could be a situation like they had with the Hulk/Bruce Banner, where he can appear in other movies without Universal's involvement, but if he gets his own movie they have to be a part of it. So Marvel can use the characters in other productions, but they can't have their own shows or movies, kind of like a non-competition clause in a job contract, where you can't work for a competitor until a certain amount of time has passed.
 
JD said:
I wasn't sure if maybe it could be a situation like they had with the Hulk/Bruce Banner, where he can appear in other movies without Universal's involvement, but if he gets his own movie they have to be a part of it.
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But that's because Universal actually had the rights to make Hulk movies; it co-produced the 2003 film with Marvel and distributed the 2008 film that Marvel produced. (And of course it produced the Bixby/Ferrigno TV series back in the day.) Again, Netflix was only the distributor of the Marvel shows. It was acting in the capacity of a broadcast network, not a production company. The distinction between those used to be clearer, but now so many companies have adopted both roles that you have to pay attention to keep track of the difference. The actual producers of the Netflix shows were Marvel Television and ABC Studios, the same as Agents of SHIELD, Runaways, etc.

You were correct that Netflix's contract gave them the exclusive right to release productions using those characters for a certain length of time, but it was only for two years after the last production was made, so it expired in 2021, allowing Matt Murdock to appear in No Way Home. It's the same kind of short-term exclusivity as when, say, a science fiction magazine buys one of my stories; part of what they pay for is the exclusive right to distribute it for a certain length of time, usually between a month and a year, but once that expires I'm free to reprint the story elsewhere. I own the story, lock, stock, and barrel; I just grant them the exclusive right to distribute it for a while, and once that contracted term expires, they have no more involvement.
 
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Interviews with cast, director and producers. This is more pre-premiere promotion than The Marvels got in its entirety.

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