Marvel's 'Avengers' Success: What Can DC Comics Learn From It?

[Gaith]

Why is Batman and Wonder Woman any less doable than Captain America and Thor?

Those two may not be, depending on how WW is portrayed; while I do tend to side with the argument that Batman should exist in a world entirely separate from "real" (as in super-powered) superheroes, I think the big problem combo is Supes and Bats. I might indeed be much more interested in a Bats-free JLA than a JLA with him.

But really, it all boils down to The Man of Steel, does it not? As someone said above, it's not hard to keep Batman profitable, whereas DC's other biggies are much riskier bets at this point. So, we'll just have to see what sort of seeds that movie sows, and how well it does.

 

[Set Harth]

Gotham exists in the Superman Returns universe.

 

[Thestral]

Why is Batman and Wonder Woman any less doable than Captain America and Thor?

Those two may not be, depending on how WW is portrayed; while I do tend to side with the argument that Batman should exist in a world entirely separate from "real" (as in super-powered) superheroes, I think the big problem combo is Supes and Bats. I might indeed be much more interested in a Bats-free JLA than a JLA with him.

The thing is, Avengers has multiple non-super-powered heroes - Cap, Black Widow, Hawkeye, not to mention all of SHIELD, so that clearly wasn't an issue. A Superman on approximately the same "power level" as Thor (not uncommon in the comics) should fill the same basic niche and be no more an odd combo than Thor and Cap, or Hulk and Black Widow. Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

 

[Star Wolf]

Its Batman's outside of JLA earning potential that you don't want to sabotage but changing his character to fit a team movie.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

A Superman on approximately the same "power level" as Thor (not uncommon in the comics) should fill the same basic niche and be no more an odd combo than Thor and Cap, or Hulk and Black Widow. Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

You're describing Smallville, which, for all it's faults, had the ratings go 10 seasons, more in comics. "Justice," the JSA, MM, pretty much every DC character of note other than Batman and Wonder Woman. It WAS done, no reason it couldn't be done on the big screen.

 

[Immolatus]

Yeah, if you had walked up to a typical person (before avengers came out) and asked them who Black Widow is and then who Wonderwoman is the response would be pretty obvious.

Truth. my children grew up watching JLA cartoons and are very familair with characters (they call superman Clark when talking about him). until the avengers movie the never even heard of black widow or hawkeye.

 

[Immolatus]

You don't need to "build a universe" for a JLA flick or any other to work and do well.

And yet, we have what Marvel did over the last 4 years and see how it turned out?

Yes, it turned out very well. That doesn't mean you have to do it that way.

of course you do, it's about making money and if they could make 100 million off of each character before JLA then make 600 million on the team movie, there gonna do it. but the key is do it right

 

[Gaith]

Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

Yes, that too. And as for Hawkeye and Black Widow, they were both supporting players, not one of the two or three main attractions, as Batman often is and would surely be.

 

[RoJoHen]

Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

Yes, that too. And as for Hawkeye and Black Widow, they were both supporting players, not one of the two or three main attractions, as Batman often is and would surely be.

I think it simply depends on the way they decide to portray Batman. Obviously it wouldn't work using the current Nolan-style Batman; it's far too grounded in reality. I think the best way too approach the JLA and include Batman is to make it as fantastic and comic-booky as possible. The reason the Avengers characters work is because they're not too realistic.

Unfortunately, this would require yet another reboot of the Batman character to make one that would fit in with a more spectacular movie universe, and honestly, I'm getting tired of characters being reinvented all the time.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Unfortunately, this would require yet another reboot of the Batman character to make one that would fit in with a more spectacular movie universe,

Aka what they might do with the next Batman film seeing as this is Nolan's last one.

 

[Captain Craig]

Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

Yes, that too. And as for Hawkeye and Black Widow, they were both supporting players, not one of the two or three main attractions, as Batman often is and would surely be.

Actually Black Widow is the character with the THIRD most screen time. Hawkeye, however is dead last.

I don't recall off hand but in the Avengers review thread I posted a link where a site timed each characters appearance.
Captain America - 36:42
Iron Man - 36:12
Black Widow - 26:00 ish minutes
Hulk - 24 minutes
Thor
Hawkeye - 12 minutes

I see Cap and IM as a near tie for 1st, so imo she not only has the second most screen time BUT all of her scenes are tied to moving the plot forward.
Black Widow = Get Hulk
BW = actionable intel from Loki
BW = recovering Hawkeye
BW = closing the portal

So to call BW a support player in The Avengers is not accurate as I see the film.

 

[Agent Richard07]

This thread got me to rent Justice League: Doom. Batman can definately hold his own with that sharp mind of his. The others rely on their strength or powers, but don't have his smarts or awareness.

 

[Star Wolf]

This thread got me to rent Justice League: Doom. Batman can definately hold his own with that sharp mind of his. The others rely on their strength or powers, but don't have his smarts or awareness.

I don't know much of DC history, however in a team of supers I can see Batman falling between Captain America and Ironman, more technology then Cap but not as much biological strength. However even with Robin he always came off as the lone ranger in the shadows type and actually leading a team seems to take away from the character strengths I have gotten from the dedicated Batman movies

 

[RoJoHen]

Unfortunately, this would require yet another reboot of the Batman character to make one that would fit in with a more spectacular movie universe,

Aka what they might do with the next Batman film seeing as this is Nolan's last one.

Perhaps, but I suspect by that point I will so burnt out on Batman that I won't care.

 

[Thestral]

Or is it something about Batman the character himself and not just that he's unpowered?

Yes, that too. And as for Hawkeye and Black Widow, they were both supporting players, not one of the two or three main attractions, as Batman often is and would surely be.

Fair enough I suppose, but I'm not sure why you think that about Bats?

And as was pointed out, Black Widow was one of the most important characters in the film, even if she didn't get many of "WOW!" moments ("Wow, she just outwitted the God of Lies" or "Wow, nice work with those corrupt Russians" might count )

 

[Harvey]

You can have character interplay without separate movies. The Magnificent Seven, The Dirty Dozen, Kelly's Heroes, Reservoir Dogs - great action-packed ensembles, where you got to know and care about the characters in the short time they were allotted. We didn't need origin stories for them all.

True, although each of the movies you've listed features recognizably human characters. We don't need to know the origin story of Charles Bronson in The Magnificent Seven; all we need to know is that his specialty is throwing knives. Most superheroes require a bit more explanation, especially if they're unfamiliar characters to the mass audience (like, say, every DC character that isn't Batman or Superman).

I don't mean to suggest that you necessarily need entire movies of explanation before you can get to the big ensemble piece, but you certainly need more explanation than the kind you get in The Magnificent Seven and the like.

 

[Star Wolf]

That was James Coburn with the knives.

 

[Harvey]

Crap. Well Bronson was... I don't even remember anymore. It's been ages since I've seen The Magnificent Seven. Still, the remark applies.

 

[Star Wolf]

The Irish/Mexican, and the first to bond with the village kids

 

[Agenda]

I'm a fan of both Marvel and DC, but I honestly believe that Marvel's most popular characters are more accessible and relatable to audiences.