Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
Right now?
That's pretty much the definition of an action film.
That's pretty much the definition of an action film.
Marvel planning Guardians of the Galaxy movie!
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
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Actually, we also saw Hulk come to the rescue of those people in the office building who were watching the battle rather than evacuating who were about to be smashed by a Leviathan, and there was the scene with Cap coordinating with the officers about the evacuation and safety of the civilians.
Also, in the Avengers there was an effort to keep the fighting contained to the immediate area surrounding Stark Tower (Cap: "Stark, anything gets more than three blocks out, you turn it back or you turn it to ash").
The Hulk one is debatable. We see Hulk stomping his way through a building and he brings down the Leviathan. He could've just been smashing his way through everything he saw. Not really the same as going out of his way to save civvies.
The cop scene with Cap is dubious since we never see the cops carrying out Cap's plan. We can conclude they did something, but that's not the same as seeing them do something.
Tony was flying around vaporizing Chitauri where he could find them. He landed/ was knocked on the ground a few times and continued to fight there. There isn't a scene where Tony stops what he is doing to help civvies like when Cap saves those people in the bank.
Point is a lot was going on and we had 6 heroes to follow during this 32 minute battle. All contributed to the victory and defense of the cities but there aren't many scenes of the Avengers actively saving people. Not like they would need to. The Chitauri were never shown killing anybody and missed every shot when people (non Avengers) were in the their line of fire. In Agents of Shield however, it is said that thousands of people died.
Recent films like Transformers 3 + 4, Godzilla (2014), MOS, STID and recently GOTG (during the finale) are explicit in their depictions of civilians dying en masse. The most egregious would be Transformers 3 + 4. The attacks on Chicago in both movies was plain mean spirited. Compared to the aforementioned movies, the destruction in Avengers is tame.
With all the criticism directed at Man of Steel (particularly comparing it to the lightness of damage in Avengers, relatively speaking), it almost felt like Marvel was throwing a life line to their rival comic company to hammer the point to the audience that these are big planet threatening events. A loss of a city is a small price to pay and may not be avoidable.
In this movie, the city was mostly evacuated by the time it ended so it seemed to just be property. But, even if lives were lost (and there were lives lost, at least among the Ravagers and Nova Corps), it pales compared to what would have happened if the entire planet was destroyed.
In this movie, the city was mostly evacuated by the time it ended so it seemed to just be property. But, even if lives were lost (and there were lives lost, at least among the Ravagers and Nova Corps), it pales compared to what would have happened if the entire planet was destroyed.
I recall reading an article last year featuring Joss Whedon. He said he had not seen MOS yet because he did not want it to influence his own creative direction for Avengers. Looking at the stills for Avengers 2 with all the Ultron drone robots, I get the feeling that Avengers 2 will be like Avengers 1. Where the team squares off against a canon fodder army before taking out the big bad, Ultron.
Maybe Whedon will ratchet up the destruction in this Avengers 2. Superman faced a Justice League level threat in MOS. A team of super beings that has Capt America, Iron Man, War Machine (alledgedly Cheadle is in the movie), Thor, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch; should merit more collateral damage from a more credible threat.
Oh, sure, I don't think that anyone is questioning that a lot of people died in Avengers. They acknowlege that there were many casualties in the little media montage at the end with the candle-light vigils and the wall with the pictures of the fallen.
But compare that to MoS and its 129,000 dead, 250, 000 missing (and probabely dead and a million injurerd and the casual way it seemed to be brushed off ("Hey, Lois, I've got court-side seats").
But compare that to MoS and its 129,000 dead, 250, 000 missing (and probabely dead and a million injurerd and the casual way it seemed to be brushed off ("Hey, Lois, I've got court-side seats").
That fanfiction was debunked by Snyder's own admission that 5,000 people died in Metropolis during a Q&A with Kevin Smith before MOS hit dvd/blu-ray.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=49052
Which is a ridiculous number given the amount of destruction. How many died in 9/11? 2-3000? and that was nothing in comparison.
Snyder's number is the fan-fiction.
^ Lol. I'd say 10,000 people died just to be on the safe side of guessing.
Granted our analyzes does perclude some things.
Such as
- The number of people who may have evacuated the city in response to Zod's worldwide broadcast and the subsequent news reports about "aliens" living among them and Metropolis' own Lois Lane knowing him.
- It could have been a Sunday where presumably most of the office buildings would be empty.
- How many people in the buildings managed to evacuate to safety. We saw the Daily Planet crew wait till the last minute before leaving and it was still chaos on the streets. The Daily Planet crew being a news org probably stayed as long as they did so they could report the story. Dumb choice if you as me.
I gathered scans of the battle in Metropolis. Despite the gravity pulses destruction, the beam was cascading outward rather slowly. I'm not to savvy with city blocks and distance. If someone knows please give an estimate of how many city block and or square miles were destroyed.
Granted our analyzes does perclude some things.
Such as
- The number of people who may have evacuated the city in response to Zod's worldwide broadcast and the subsequent news reports about "aliens" living among them and Metropolis' own Lois Lane knowing him.
- It could have been a Sunday where presumably most of the office buildings would be empty.
- How many people in the buildings managed to evacuate to safety. We saw the Daily Planet crew wait till the last minute before leaving and it was still chaos on the streets. The Daily Planet crew being a news org probably stayed as long as they did so they could report the story. Dumb choice if you as me.
I gathered scans of the battle in Metropolis. Despite the gravity pulses destruction, the beam was cascading outward rather slowly. I'm not to savvy with city blocks and distance. If someone knows please give an estimate of how many city block and or square miles were destroyed.
Wide shot of Metropolis showing most of the city.
Machine pancaking the Earth
Standing in a crater
Artist rendering of the crater
Machine pancaking the Earth
Standing in a crater
Artist rendering of the crater
9/11 was a disaster. The Avengers was an all-out, full-scale war. What we saw in MoS was an event of near-apocalyptic proportions. The three square blocks that the Avengers managed to contain their battle in is still a smaller than the area in Metropolis that was out-right reduced to rubble.
And I am much more inclined to believe the numbers ran by people who actually know what they are talking about, experts in their field who use actual scientific process and mathematical models in their calculations than the numbers that Zack Snyder or anyone else pulls out of their bodily orifices.
And I am much more inclined to believe the numbers ran by people who actually know what they are talking about, experts in their field who use actual scientific process and mathematical models in their calculations than the numbers that Zack Snyder or anyone else pulls out of their bodily orifices.
Zack Snyder is the writer, though. In reality, zero people died (well, I hope zero people died). The rest is just a fictional number. If the writer makes the number 5,000, then the number is 5,000.
Mister Fandango
Fleet Captain
The thing you're missing about those numbers is that you're completely ignoring how many people would have died if said heroes hadn't have intervened at all.
Even in Man of Steel where the only reason the world was in jeopardy was because of Kal-El's presence, it wasn't his fault that he was stuck there, nor did he have any viable way to leave the planet (and certainly nowhere to go even if he did). So Zod attacking wasn't his fault, and even if Kal had surrendered, Zod still would have attempted to destroy and/or conquer Earth.
The same is true in the Avengers. You can't even blame Thor for giving Loki a reason to come to Earth, as that fault lies entirely in Odin's hands.
Even in Man of Steel where the only reason the world was in jeopardy was because of Kal-El's presence, it wasn't his fault that he was stuck there, nor did he have any viable way to leave the planet (and certainly nowhere to go even if he did). So Zod attacking wasn't his fault, and even if Kal had surrendered, Zod still would have attempted to destroy and/or conquer Earth.
The same is true in the Avengers. You can't even blame Thor for giving Loki a reason to come to Earth, as that fault lies entirely in Odin's hands.
I have to say I've never seen the "It could have been a Sunday" argument before.
In the Avengers there are lines (and actions) around them specifically creating a perimeter and working to contain the attackers.
The Army might've said the they were doing the same in MoS - can't remember offhand.
In GotG they say they evacuated the city but at the end there's a crowd around the crash site.
In the Avengers there are lines (and actions) around them specifically creating a perimeter and working to contain the attackers.
The Army might've said the they were doing the same in MoS - can't remember offhand.
In GotG they say they evacuated the city but at the end there's a crowd around the crash site.
Which is just about as believable as a man from another planet gaining super powers under the light of our yellow sun, but sure, I get your meaning.
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Snyder directed, but he doesn't have a writing credit on the movie. Whatever the script has to say (and I'd be surprised if it had a definite number), the way he staged the final battle makes the 5,000 number totally unbelievable, and no after the fact declaration is going to change that.
You're right that it's all fiction, of course.
And even writers can be wrong. J.K. Rowling intended for Hogwarts to have close to 1,000 students, but an extrapolation from Harry's year would give less than 300, which she herself has admitted is due to her difficulty with math.
BTW, your post inspired me to look back through old posts in this thread. It was fun to read the casting rumors for Starlord (that actually mirrored the difficulties they had finding the right person). But I really wanted to post this post
Well, only if the writer includes it in the movie. (Also, does Snyder even have a writing credit on MoS?) Since his number doesn't seem to match what is shown on screen, we can pretty much ignore Snyder's statement. Just like we ignore George Lucas' insistence that he always intended for Greedo to shoot first.
Trying to crunch actual numbers of casualties is beside the point. The real point is the enduring popularity of devastation porn (well, part of the point-- the rest being the generic nature of these movies, the lack of plot and characterization). In Japan, in the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a new genre of movie evolved that revolved around the explicit destruction of whole cities by unstoppable radioactive monsters. Now, in the United States, in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks, we've seen a growing fetishism involving the sweeping destruction of cities by terrorist figures. Victims of violence becoming obsessed with violence. It says something troubling about the human psyche.
