Marvel/Netflix Daredevil Season 1
- Thread starter JD
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Oh, great, dark and gritty. That's never been done before...
Me, I'd rather have Mark Waid Daredevil than Frank Miller Daredevil.
Me, I'd rather have Mark Waid Daredevil than Frank Miller Daredevil.
Of course, this is the first time that Marvel Studios has gone down the "dark and gritty" road in one of their productions. They have proven more than once that they understand the balance involved with respecting comic book tropes and sensibilities in a "real world" context. I look forward to seeing how they handle not only "dark and gritty" storytelling, but also the whole "secret identity" thing. I don't mind seeing it done again as long as it's done well.
Of course, some Waid style humor thrown in the mix could only be a good thing. But Waid has taken DD into some dark places himself. Mole Man's grave robbing scheme. Bullseye's revenge. The recent Purple Man arc. Not to mention Foggy's battle with cancer. Not many yuks to be found there.
Of course, some Waid style humor thrown in the mix could only be a good thing. But Waid has taken DD into some dark places himself. Mole Man's grave robbing scheme. Bullseye's revenge. The recent Purple Man arc. Not to mention Foggy's battle with cancer. Not many yuks to be found there.
^Well, sure, but Waid understands how to balance the solemn and dark elements with lighter, fun elements. Life is a mix of tragedy and absurdity, and writers like Whedon and Waid get that. Miller, from what I've read of and read about his work, just tended to go for dark and grim all the time, and what humor there was tended to be rather cynical and bitter.
Besides, the character is named Daredevil. That sobriquet implies someone carefree who laughs at danger, which is how Stan Lee wrote him. And Waid brought that back after decades of writers keeping Matt Murdock in a constant state of despair and angst that just didn't fit his nickname at all.
Besides, the character is named Daredevil. That sobriquet implies someone carefree who laughs at danger, which is how Stan Lee wrote him. And Waid brought that back after decades of writers keeping Matt Murdock in a constant state of despair and angst that just didn't fit his nickname at all.
Miller flat out didn't go for dark and grim all the time. That's a common misconception based partly on the fact that one of his greatest stories ever (Born Again) was dark and gritty and partly based on his later work. He definitely lives in a darker world, but there's plenty of humor in his work, which a lot of people don't realize.
He's the Man Without Fear, but that doesn't mean he's a wise-cracking Spider-Man clone either. To me, the moment that sums him up is when he chases Bullseye down the subway tunnel knowing full well that his radar senses would be completely useless, he prevails through sheer perseverance, and he saves Bullseye's life even knowing that he would probably escape and kill again. It's courage mixed with conviction that works well.
But Miller's work also included Paper Chase - Heroes for Hire trying to find a piece of evidence at one point literally floating through a parade (which a much lighter issue). There's a fun little issue told entirely from the perspective of Foggy Nelson where he pretends to be a hitman for hire by the name of Guts Nelson. There's the issue where Foggy's lost his wife's wedding ring and they travel through the city looking for it (spoiler alert, turns out he had it on his finger so he wouldn't lose it). Actually reading his original run shows that it had a good mix of light and dark.
But even if that weren't true, criticizing a Daredevil TV show for being "like Miller" doesn't make sense to me. The comic wouldn't have lasted if it weren't for Frank Miller. As far as I'm concerned, he deserves as much credit as Stan Lee for the character.
He's the Man Without Fear, but that doesn't mean he's a wise-cracking Spider-Man clone either. To me, the moment that sums him up is when he chases Bullseye down the subway tunnel knowing full well that his radar senses would be completely useless, he prevails through sheer perseverance, and he saves Bullseye's life even knowing that he would probably escape and kill again. It's courage mixed with conviction that works well.
But Miller's work also included Paper Chase - Heroes for Hire trying to find a piece of evidence at one point literally floating through a parade (which a much lighter issue). There's a fun little issue told entirely from the perspective of Foggy Nelson where he pretends to be a hitman for hire by the name of Guts Nelson. There's the issue where Foggy's lost his wife's wedding ring and they travel through the city looking for it (spoiler alert, turns out he had it on his finger so he wouldn't lose it). Actually reading his original run shows that it had a good mix of light and dark.
But even if that weren't true, criticizing a Daredevil TV show for being "like Miller" doesn't make sense to me. The comic wouldn't have lasted if it weren't for Frank Miller. As far as I'm concerned, he deserves as much credit as Stan Lee for the character.
There was a line once...
"What do you mean my costume is red? I thought it was green."
"What do you mean my costume is red? I thought it was green."
That was Bendis's run. I think the line was "I thought it was yellow." (a callback to his first costume being yellow). There's actually some good humor in Bendis's work (although it's clearly darker than what came before).
There's also a funny line in Brubaker's work where Daredevil is running through Paris threatening bad guys for information by hanging them over the side of buildings, asking them the same question in French. With one person, he starts his question and the guy says "your French is poison to my ears! Switch to English and I'll talk."
There's also a funny line in Brubaker's work where Daredevil is running through Paris threatening bad guys for information by hanging them over the side of buildings, asking them the same question in French. With one person, he starts his question and the guy says "your French is poison to my ears! Switch to English and I'll talk."
Yes, Miller is an essential part of Daredevil's history, but in my opinion, so is Waid. Waid owes a lot to the history Miller set in motion, but he adds a lot of value of his own to it. So I'd like to see a Waid-style DD because that includes the Miller-style DD in its genome while balancing it with the lighter, funner DD as originally envisioned by Lee. The Waid version isn't in opposition to Miller, it's a synthesis of the character's entire history. Which seems to me like a good approach to take for a screen adaptation.
That's my suggestion, although I suspect they're starting a bit darker than that. We'll have to see, though.
I hope that's what they intend to do over time, but I'd like to see more of a blend of both. An adaptation doesn't have to copy the chronology of its source, but can amalgamate elements from different eras. For instance, Batman: The Animated Series was a mix of elements from the '70s through the '90s -- such as having Rupert Thorne and Bane appear in the same episode.
Bendis is getting writing credits for AKA Jessica Jones, because he wrote the comics, and probably not for any writing on the show, but shouldn't that mean that the time period for Daredevil is analogous to the Alias era?
Not really. The MCU draws from all eras. They borrow stories, not time periods. Iron Man 2 drew from Demon in a Bottle (1979) and maybe a little bit of Armor Wars (1987), buy it only takes place a few years before Civil War.
AKA Jessica Jones is drawing from the Alias story, but that doesn't mean we're talking Bendis's Daredevil.
AKA Jessica Jones is drawing from the Alias story, but that doesn't mean we're talking Bendis's Daredevil.
Right. As evidenced by the fact that modern-day characters Edwin Jarvis and Doctor Faustus were used 1940s characters in Agent Carter. Along with Roger Dooley, who was a total scumbag in the present day in She-Hulk but became a more sympathetic character in the '40s in AC. The comics are just the starting point for creating something new.
New trailer-
http://www.superherohype.com/news/332961-here-comes-the-new-trailer-for-daredevil#/slide/1
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAy6NJ_D5vU[/yt]
http://www.superherohype.com/news/332961-here-comes-the-new-trailer-for-daredevil#/slide/1
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAy6NJ_D5vU[/yt]
It's certainly a very dark trailer. Literally. Not a lot of daytime scenes, and many of those are kind of dim-looking. Plus you have darkness specifically mentioned in dialogue and song lyrics. Seems to be laying it on a bit thick. (The trailer, that is -- I'm still reserving judgment about the show itself.)
As for Kingpin, it's hard for anyone to dispel Roscoe Lee Browne as the voice of Wilson Fisk in my mind, but D'Onofrio is certainly going to be interesting to watch in the role. He's definitely the biggest draw, though I hope this isn't the sort of show where the villain is more appealing to watch than the hero. So far, though, Matt himself seems kind of bland.
As for Kingpin, it's hard for anyone to dispel Roscoe Lee Browne as the voice of Wilson Fisk in my mind, but D'Onofrio is certainly going to be interesting to watch in the role. He's definitely the biggest draw, though I hope this isn't the sort of show where the villain is more appealing to watch than the hero. So far, though, Matt himself seems kind of bland.
^ She's probably the main female lead, so I would hope it's fairly significant.
Frankly, I still use 90s cartoon voices when I read cartoon characters (although Kingpin is a bit difficult because the dialog in Daredevil is often very different from what he says in a Spiderman cartoon). But I was recently reading X-Men and I used all their voices in my head. None of the movie characters managed to replace them.
Frankly, I still use 90s cartoon voices when I read cartoon characters (although Kingpin is a bit difficult because the dialog in Daredevil is often very different from what he says in a Spiderman cartoon). But I was recently reading X-Men and I used all their voices in my head. None of the movie characters managed to replace them.
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