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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


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Well, we saw thousands of Kang variants in the Quantumania post-credits scene and they all looked like Majors. But of course, this is theater. They already recast Rhodey, Bruce, Thunderbolt Ross (upcoming), etc. There doesn't need to be an in-story excuse for a change of performers.



Based on what Loki's season 2 finale is potentially going to do they're going to double down on Majors Kang and there's no turning around

Unlike movies reshoots generally aren't scheduled for them. When you're dealing with movie stars their schedules are filled out and you do not have the logistical ability to make changes like that on a show like this. It's a really lack of foresight on the part of marvel. As soon as the Jonathan Majors shit went down they should have started making calls and started to try to get a reshoot and rewrite done.
 
1) Agreed that Kang could be recast with minimal to no explanation. But though I haven't been watching Loki S2 yet, I'm not yet sold on the character and his motivations - whole universes going to war with each other is a very shapeless and psychologically incoherent concept. Thanos' universal culling, on the other hand, involved death on an unimaginable scale, but it also made tangible, intuitive sense, and directly related to real-world environmental concerns.

2) The overall core problem here is shaky storytelling, and bad writing. Quantumania made Janet look foolish for not warning her family to never attempt to contact the Quantum Realm, because she knew a dire threat lurked there, gave Hope nothing to do, and wimped out on Scott sacrificing himself (at the very least temporarily) to keep Kang contained. Black Widow and Eternals were pointless stories at best - if Natasha had a whole squad of Widows to help rehabilitate (or half of them, at least), why did she tell Steve the Avengers were her only family/responsibility in Endgame? Will Bruce's alien son be an actual character, or will he be a forgotten, weird joke? How do our African-American heroes feel about Wakanda? Can't Pepper extend Sam a home loan for his boat, or can't he profit off his celebrity even a teensy bit? If a teen at MIT can build an Iron Man suit with help from YouTube, why can't the government? Etc.

On a broader scale, what nincompoop thought a Secret Invasion series without the major heroes was a workable idea? (If it was just a matter of desperately needing content, why not more Agent Carter, or a Maria Hill solo outing?) Where's our Shang-Chi follow-up? And who the heck asked for an Echo show? It's one thing to make an Agatha show, set safely and cozily in centuries past, but the more Kingpin is around, the more people are going to want to see Spidey.

(And weak writing isn't just a Marvel problem, it's a Disney problem. Boba Fett, Mando S3, Ahsoka, and Dial of Destiny had major script problems, and I'm guessing Willow did, also. Furthermore, Pixar has been shaky, Strange World and Haunted Mansion bombed, and they've nearly run out of live-action remakes, to say nothing of their failure to build up/maintain other franchises, including Pirates and The Muppets.)

3) Sounds to me like the main person problem is Bob Chapek and the other top Disney execs, who demanded way too much series content from Marvel and Star Wars in a rush to build up Disney+ as soon as possible, with the added mistaken short-term thinking that series would remain more important than movies after the pandemic subsided. I'm not saying Feige can do (or has done) no wrong, but I'd be astounded if he himself didn't think he was being stretched far too thinly. An interconnected, internally cohesive universe needs a strong guiding hand, as the success of the MCU itself amply proved.
 
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Based on what Loki's season 2 finale is potentially going to do they're going to double down on Majors Kang and there's no turning around

I don't understand this assumption that the character is somehow inseparable from the actor. Okay, Majors plays Kang all the way to the end of Loki. That goes without saying, because it's already a completed production. They don't churn these things out overnight, so obviously there's going to be a time lag. But so what? That doesn't preclude someone else taking over the role in the next production, because that's how acting works.


And who the heck asked for an Echo show?

From what I gather, the Hawkeye producers did upon being deeply impressed by Alaqua Cox's performance. Which is not an unusual way for a spinoff to happen.


It's one thing to make an Agatha show, set safely and cozily in centuries past

Hm? Reports are that it's a sequel to WandaVision with returning characters from that show, so it must be set in the present (or rather, the MCU's near-future "present").
 
If people actually read the Variety piece they'd see that the issue is with the character as well as the actor, so recasting won't solve that problem.

It also doesn't help when your new Big Bad dies three times in a row and that his plans are far less easy to define than "Wants to kill half the Universe".
 
Oh, I thought the Agatha show would be set in the past for some reason. Well, if it's set in the present, it better have Wong, is all I can say. :p
 
If people actually read the Variety piece they'd see that the issue is with the character as well as the actor, so recasting won't solve that problem.

It also doesn't help when your new Big Bad dies three times in a row and that his plans are far less easy to define than "Wants to kill half the Universe".

I just don't get the play - he's a putz who was taken out by Ant-man - the twist is that there are thousands of him? How is that a twist? Once you set up a multiverse there are thousands of everyone.
 
If people actually read the Variety piece they'd see that the issue is with the character as well as the actor, so recasting won't solve that problem.

Sorry, I just now re-read the Variety piece twice and I don't see where it says that. The closest it comes is, "A studio source notes that regardless of the actor’s legal issues, Marvel already had considered moving away from a Majors-led phase because of the box office performance of 'Quantumania,' which will struggle to make a profit."


I just don't get the play - he's a putz who was taken out by Ant-man - the twist is that there are thousands of him? How is that a twist? Once you set up a multiverse there are thousands of everyone.

Yeah, but usually they aren't either working together or trying to kill each other.

I guess the problem here is that they're trying to work backward. Kang accreted multiple identities and alternate versions over decades of convoluted comic-book storytelling, so it was earned. Here, it's being sprung on us as the first thing we learn about him, which is perhaps overcomplicated.
 
Haha!

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https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1719742090223964454


Variety, of all places, running with this 'Marvel in Crisis' article really shows how bad the situation at Disney has become.

I'm happy we got the first 10 years. It won't get that good again in today's Hollywood.
 
If they can recast Hulk, Rhodey, and Thunderbolt Ross, I really don't see why recasting Kang would be an issue.
Honestly, the most of what the article talks about isn't really that shocking, we've already heard about a lot of it. And really, isn't most of that pretty much standard for these kind of big studio movies. Hell, just look at what happened over at WB with their DC movies.
Yeah, but usually they aren't either working together or trying to kill each other.

I guess the problem here is that they're trying to work backward. Kang accreted multiple identities and alternate versions over decades of convoluted comic-book storytelling, so it was earned. Here, it's being sprung on us as the first thing we learn about him, which is perhaps overcomplicated.
Yeah, I'm a little confused by why the decided to make Kang's thing in the MCU the multiverse, I was under the impression his thing in the comics was time travel.
 
This marvel in crisis stuff is tiring. It honestly makes discussing the mcu exhausting. Especially with the fans and their "hot takes".

My take, which ain't that hot, is recast Kang
 
Yeah, I'm a little confused by why the decided to make Kang's thing in the MCU the multiverse, I was under the impression his thing in the comics was time travel.

Time travel and alternate timelines go hand in hand, since changing the past creates alternate timelines, as seen in Endgame. The "Council of Kangs," consisting of numerous alternate versions of Kang created by his many time travels, has existed in the comics since 1986. Even before then, one of Kang's defining traits was that he's had many different identities over his extended lifetime, including the Egyptian pharaoh Rama-Tut and the time-traveling villain Immortus.
 
Black Widow and Eternals were pointless stories at best - if Natasha had a whole squad of Widows to help rehabilitate (or half of them, at least), why did she tell Steve the Avengers were her only family/responsibility in Endgame?

Because all her other family died in the Snap, like Yelena. At the time, she didn't have anyone else.

How do our African-American heroes feel about Wakanda?

That's to be explored later.

Can't Pepper extend Sam a home loan for his boat, or can't he profit off his celebrity even a teensy bit?

Same reason Spider-man is always poor in the comics.

If a teen at MIT can build an Iron Man suit with help from YouTube, why can't the government? Etc.

Her own suit wasn't that good. She didn't built a powerful one until the Wakandans helped her.

On a broader scale, what nincompoop thought a Secret Invasion series without the major heroes was a workable idea?

They were never doing the original Secret Invasion story 1:1, because it wasn't a good story in the first place

Where's our Shang-Chi follow-up?

In the works.

And who the heck asked for an Echo show?

Oh, so a Blind Man is fine but a Deaf Woman isn't?
 
Exactly. Travelling back in time and changing the past creates a new timeline

Echo's getting a show partially because of Native American representation. She's certainly a more prominent character in the comics than Yelena for sure
 
Okay. Another piece of info from the article


There's been talks to bring back Downey Jr and Johansson down the road for an Avengers reunion movie.

Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an “Avengers” movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow, both of whom were killed off in “Endgame.”


Let's guess how many trucks of cash would be needed to entice either of them back?

It definitely would seem like a cheap ploy to get people interested again.

"The new stuff(kang/The Marvels is floundering we need a hail mary play"
 
Oh, and as for Kang losing in Ant-Man 3...that's just one variant of him. Kang's whole thing is that there are several versions that vary in power. The Ant-Man 3 Kang was just one of the weaker ones.
 
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