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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
apollo1984 said:
I don't know why but I always assumed it was Captain America who reassembled them to take out the assorted Hydra bases but Thor doing it to get back the scepter makes sense too.
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Well, that was the impression I got from the dialogue in AoU -- that the Avengers' mission had been to find the scepter, and now it was complete. Though I'm sure it was a mix of both -- Thor and Cap had parallel goals, Thor to get the scepter and Cap to get Hydra. Natasha was already on Cap's team. And I would assume that Tony came out of retirement as a reaction to the fall of SHIELD, since someone had to take over protecting the world. And Bruce and Hawkeye just tagged along with their pals.
 
Christopher said:
Well, that was the impression I got from the dialogue in AoU -- that the Avengers' mission had been to find the scepter, and now it was complete. Though I'm sure it was a mix of both -- Thor and Cap had parallel goals, Thor to get the scepter and Cap to get Hydra. Natasha was already on Cap's team. And I would assume that Tony came out of retirement as a reaction to the fall of SHIELD, since someone had to take over protecting the world. And Bruce and Hawkeye just tagged along with their pals.
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Yeah I can see bringing banner along being more for the scepter rather than just a 'random' hydra base though it did seem like it was certainly not the first time Natasha used her 'lullaby' skill on him so maybe it was a bit of both trying to get the scepter but it was not the first base they hit to try to find it, thus it served both Thors and cap's goals.

But you are right if it was just the hydra bases then they just happened to find it in the last base so yeah it probably was more Thor than Cap.
 
It was stated quite clearly that it was the culmination of a series of raids on Hydra facilities. The implication from the AoS tie-in was that most of that intel was coming from Coulson via Hill, which means that those Hydra bases seen in late season 1 & season 2 probably got a visit from the Avengers about five minutes after the credits rolled on the TV show.

Also, it's implied in ending of Thor 2 that he stuck around on Earth after the conjunction and indeed probably didn't return to Asgard until the end of AoU.
 
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I definitely agree that Silvestri's themes have generally been the most memorable of the MCU. I still find myself humming his Captain America or Avengers themes on occasion. I'm looking forward to hearing what he comes up with for Infinity War.
 
I have no objection to him coming back, but I can't agree those are the most memorable/best themes of the MCU. The Avengers theme is catchy enough, but heavily generic. And while I really like the Captain America march, it's really only the refrain that's memorable, and the rest feels, again, very generic. Meanwhile, I would say the Ant-Man main theme is the best superhero theme song since Elfman's Batman (or at the very least, tied with the Man of Steel theme), and the GoTG score was absolutely fantastic all the way through, although it often felt more like a Sci-Fi score in the vein of Star Trek/Stargate/Galaxy Quest, et al, rather than a superhero score, but that's understandable considering the subject.
 
I think he would make a good Johnny Blaze. I think I'd prefer a series over a film, if Netflix is willing and has a big enough SFX budget.
 
Emh said:
I think he would make a good Johnny Blaze. I think I'd prefer a series over a film, if Netflix is willing and has a big enough SFX budget.
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Well if it's done like most other superhero television, he would only be the blazing skull only a short portion of each episode. So while it would still be expensive, not terribly by television standards.
 
Io9's Katherine Trendacosta has a new post about Marvel's treatment of Asians. I have to admit, I never really thought of The Hand from Daredevil as being that much of a stereotype but I guess they are.
I have to admit, I actually thought changing the Ancient One's race and sex was a good way to avoid a stereotype, but she does bring up some good points there. In the comments someone mentions just having the Ancient One be business man in Shanghai or somewhere like that, and I have to admit I did have similar thoughts about other ways they could have avoided the stereotype.
I was glad she did at least bring up Daisy and May, they are great characters.
 
Trip went by the alias "General Jones" once, if you want to read anything into that. Gabe does seem like the most likely choice , however, remember that Agent Carter S1 introduces several new Howlers, including the African American "Happy" Sam Sawyer.
 
JD said:
Io9's Katherine Trendacosta has a new post about Marvel's treatment of Asians. I have to admit, I never really thought of The Hand from Daredevil as being that much of a stereotype but I guess they are.
I have to admit, I actually thought changing the Ancient One's race and sex was a good way to avoid a stereotype, but she does bring up some good points there. In the comments someone mentions just having the Ancient One be business man in Shanghai or somewhere like that, and I have to admit I did have similar thoughts about other ways they could have avoided the stereotype.
I was glad she did at least bring up Daisy and May, they are great characters.
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The Ancient One is a catch-22 sadly. Cast it as it is in the comics and people will cry "racist stereotype" cast otherwise and it's white-washing. Same problem with the Mandarin, though the white-washing cry in that case seems odd given Kingsley's paternal heritage.

As for The Hand, I was always under the assumption that them being an anachronistic cliche was half the point. I mean they're an ancient cult of zombie ninjas, how else should they portray them? Again though, if they cast Nobu as anything other than Japanese, again would come the cries.
This criticism of course completely ignores how the Ten Rings are portrayed. Though they've been fairly low key throughout the films to date, they've been by far the most ethnically diverse set of characters. On the other hand, it's hard to know exactly who were the "real" Ten Rings and who were Killian's impostors. All we know for sure is the guy that broke poor Trevor out of prison was the real thing.

Not that the MCU doesn't have a lot of ground to make up on the diversity front. They really do, but these aren't the hills to die on. We need to be encouraging them to make more Daisys and not complaining so much when they fail to give us a Fu Manchu lookalike. Because why would we want that?
 
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One other thing that bugged me with stuff she said about The Hand is that I could have sworn we did see some white members of The Hand sometime during season 2.
EDIT: In the battle between the comic book cinematic universes, I do think DC has been winning on the diversity front. It will have been 10 year since the MCU started before we get a non-white title lead character, and 11 before we get a female led MCU movie.
In almost half that time DC will give us Wonder Woman with an Israeli woman in the lead title role, Aquaman with Jason Mamoa whose father is Native Hawaiian, Cyborg with a black lead, and possibly Green Lantern which has characters of numerous races available as lead. Suicide Squad will also be giving us an incredible diverse cast with a 2 white women, 2 black men, a black woman, a hispanic man and an Asian woman all in prominent roles. I think SS has more a diverse cast than any of the Marvel movies.
 
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^Not a massively fair comparison since it's not like DC just woke up and suddenly started making movies with BvS. All the while the MCU has been chugging away, DC have been putting out Batman movies and the occasional Superman movie. Hell, technically they've been doing it since the late 70's and they were no less white and male dominated as what Marvel has been doing.

What's happening now with DC is that they've realised they're so late to the game that they have to push *everything* out at once in order to catch up. Having a diverse cast won't do comic book movies any favours in and of itself if they're going to have the same half-baked, scatterbrained, "everything and the kitchen sink" approach as BvS displayed. An ethnically diverse train-wreck, is still a train-wreck. I'd much rather they take the time to get it right than fumble it in the rush to win a race they're already two laps behind on.

I'm not saying Marvel couldn't have diversified sooner because they absolutely could and should have at least done a Black Widow movie *years* ago. Of course a part of the problem is that the source material is still very white male centric and since that's what they're drawing from, it's only going to compound matters. Marvel does have a diverse pool of characters to draw from, it's just it's taken this long for the MCU to get to a place where it's much freer to branch out into those more obscure (to the mainstream) characters like Jessica Jones, Black Panther, Captain Marvel and so on.
 
Oh, I definitely agree that diversity is not enough to save bad movie, I was just pointing out how much more diverse DC's casts are.
You do have a point about them trying to rush things to much with DC, but I still don't really think Marvel has a real excuse for taking so long to diversify it's leads. I could see maybe not wanting to rush out with a whole bunch of movies with non-white and women leads, but they still could have started diversify their leads somewhere before the 18th movie.
I absolutely love the MCU, the movies have been consistently good to great, but I do think this is the on area where it's really been lacking.
And of course I know about all of the Superman and Batman movies they've been releasing, but I was specifically talking about the DCEU since the article was just talking about the MCU.
 
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