Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Nerys Myk]

Be interesting to see how close they hew to the comics origin. Zemo seems unlikely as his creator, given his stance against super-humans. The ex-con angle has been covered by Ant-Man. Infiltrator seems unlikely as well Too bad Wanda is KIA and Vision is MIA.

 

[Reverend]

Granted my exposure to the character is limited to only a few early 90s comics and the Marvel Trading Cards of the same period, but Wonder Man always seemed rather bland to me. I'm curious to see how he's utilized here.

Sometimes the bland characters are the best ones to adapt since: 1) one has the latitude to take massive liberties up to and including totally reimagining the character, and 2) nobody actually cares if it's not faithful to the source material.

A good example of this is the version of Mr. Freeze that BTAS came up with and instantly became the definitive take.

 

[StCoop]

I'd be surprised if it's not a comedy series using the stunt man / actor part of his story.

 

[YLu]

I'd be surprised if it's not a comedy series using the stunt man / actor part of his story.

Yeah, I think it pretty much has to be that. Other than that angle, the only other ones the character has are being an everyman and (more recently) being a literal pacifist. The former only make sense when he's sharing a story with the likes of Thor and the Vision, and doesn't work if he's on his own without anyone to contrast. The latter... look, as much I'd personally enjoy a Marvel series where the lead literally cannot fight anyone, we know that's never happening. The actor/celebrity stuff’s the only one that works.

That or it’s actually an entirely original idea that they’re attaching to Wonder Man because he’s unimportant enough that nobody’s interested in saving the ‘authentic’ version for future use.

 

[Christopher]

Hmm... In the comics, the Vision's consciousness was a copy of Wonder Man's, right? Maybe they're going to do it the other way around and have Wonder Man be a human incarnation of the Vision, played by Paul Bettany.

 

[theenglish]

Love this comment from Chloe Bennet:

https://twitter.com/chloebennet/sta...bennet-shang-chi-agents-of-shield-selfie-mcu/

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I mean, Hogun was on screen years before AoS aired. Plus mutliple asian characters in pre-MCU movies. And Shang-Chi comics have existed for decades.

 

[Reverend]

I think the operative word there was "superhero", not "character".

 

[Grendelsbayne]

And Hogun doesn't count because why exactly?

 

[Reverend]

Mostly because I had to google who he even was.

At best he was a supporting character; and that's being generous considering all of his scenes across three movies probably amount to less than then minutes. Also, not really a "superhero" in any real sense. At least no more than any other random Adgardian or Vanir warrior. Are we going to try and count Jim Morita as a superhero too? Of course not.

Hell, even calling him a character is kind of pushing it since he's mostly just there . . . and then Hela kills him. Skurge had more character development than he did.

So yeah, I'd say Daisy is the first Asian MCU superhero. Or at the very least AoD being in the mainline MCU is WAY less of a stretch giving it to . . . damn, I forgot his name already. Thingy bloke with Xena and Robin Hood.

 

[StCoop]

And Hogun doesn't count because why exactly?

For the same reason that Melinda May doesn't count; because she said superhero not character.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Mostly because I had to google who he even was.

At best he was a supporting character; and that's being generous considering all of his scenes across three movies probably amount to less than then minutes. Also, not really a "superhero" in the traditional sense. At least no more than any other random Adgardian or Vanir warrior. Are we going to try and count Jim Morita as a superhero too? Of course not.

Hell, even calling him a character is kind of pushing it since he's mostly just there . . . and then Hela kills him. Skurge had more character development than he did.

He's a superpowered character who fights alongside Thor against supervillains in multiple films.

Is he exactly the same as Quake? No.

Quake also isn't the same as Shang-Chi. She isn't in a major motion picture, she isn't the title character and it's at least somewhat questionable whether she's actually part of the MCU or not at this point.

It's kind of weird to complain your character has been unfairly overlooked by method of unfairly overlooking other characters (and yes, she's joking, but still). In addition to Hogun, and the other small-role characters from the X-films, there's also Yukio who basically co-starred in The Wolverine and Melinda May on Agents of Shield itself who is exactly as 'super' as Natasha Romanoff and who clearly predates Quake/Daisy.

And it's definitely poor wording at best to not even differentiate between between the different media, since Marvel comics certainly had plenty of asian superheros before Quake was invented in 2004 and they had also expanded out to other media before the MCU existed, as well.

For the same reason that Melinda May doesn't count; because she said superhero not character.

If Melinda May isn't a superhero, neither is Black Widow or Hawkeye. If Hogun isn't a superhero, neither is Valkyrie or Sif.

 

[StCoop]

If Melinda May isn't a superhero, neither is Black Widow or Hawkeye.

Correct.

Black Widow is a spy/assassin. Hawkeye's big selling point, for both Clint and Kate, is that they are ordinary people who are good at shooting arrows.

 

[Reverend]

We can split hairs all the live long day. Bottom line; if you say a character's name and even most Marvel fans say "Who? Oh, that guy . . .", they're really not in the same league as Shang Chi or Daisy Johnson.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Correct.

Black Widow is a spy/assassin. Hawkeye's big selling point, for both Clint and Kate, is that they are ordinary people who are good at shooting arrows.

Ok. Good luck convincing the world Black Widow and Hawkeye are not superhero movies/shows.

We can split hairs all the live long day. Bottom line; if you say a character's name and even most Marvel fans say "Who? Oh, that guy . . .", they're really not in the same league as Shang Chi or Daisy Johnson.

Bottom line: they don't have to be in the same league to be relevant to the question of who was the 'first marvel superhero'. And if you're going to play with who's in what league with who, Daisy Johnson isn't in Shang-Chi's league either anyway. He achieved major milestones that she did not in exactly the same way that she achieved major milestones that earlier characters did not.

 

[Reverend]

Daisy Johnson isn't in Shang-Chi's league either

Seriously? She punched a neigh invulnerable supervillain so hard he hit escape velocity and flew into the sun. But sure. No big deal.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Seriously? She punched a neigh invulnerable supervillain so hard he hit escape velocity and flew into the sun. But sure. No big deal.

And Hogun stood against the Destroyer and Hela. Wasn't your entire argument that his powers don't matter because he's less well-known?

Daisy Johnson is the second or third co-lead of an abc ensemble series. Shang-Chi is the star of a major motion picture.

 

[Dee1891]

And Hogun stood against the Destroyer and Hela. Wasn't your entire argument that his powers don't matter because he's less well-known?

Daisy Johnson is the second or third co-lead of an abc ensemble series. Shang-Chi is the star of a major motion picture.

Daisy Johnson isn't in Shang-Chi's class as a fighter. Nor is she in Melinda May's class as a fighter. She wouldn't able to beat either of them without her powers. Also, one doesn't need superpowers or a special kind of tech to be a superhero.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Hogun was never, ever more than a supporting character. Daisy was a lead. Also, Chloe Bennett was asian playing asian, whereas the guy playing Hogun, whose name I'm not even going to attempt to spell from memory, was Asian playing alien.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Daisy Johnson isn't in Shang-Chi's class as a fighter. Nor is she in Melinda May's class as a fighter. She wouldn't able to beat either of them without her powers.

Obviously true, though I don't think it matters that much whether a superhero could beat a different one if you take away their powers. Quake obviously outclasses Agent May, and any non-powered hero who's technology isn't *very* good. That doesn't mean she can't possibly lose to such characters, though, and she did on various occasions go down to people less powerful than her. That can happen.

As far as Shang-Chi goes, his magical abilities plus the power of the Ten Rings makes him at the very least a strong match for Quake if not actually the more powerful of the two.

Also, one doesn't need superpowers or a special kind of tech to be a superhero.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'special tech' or if you have a particular example of a superhero in mind who has neither powers of any kind nor advanced technology of any kind. If you do, I'd be very interested in hearing about them.

For me, I consider advanced technology (more advanced than the majority of society) a superpower in itself. Shield technology is a superpower, just like Stark technology or Pym technology or Wayne Enterprises technology.

Hogun was never, ever more than a supporting character. Daisy was a lead. Also, Chloe Bennett was asian playing asian, whereas the guy playing Hogun, whose name I'm not even going to attempt to spell from memory, was Asian playing alien.

All true. It just doesn't make Hogun irrelevant to the question. Or Agent May, Yukio, etc.