Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by bbjeg, Apr 6, 2014.

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What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  1. A+

    20.0%
  2. A

    34.6%
  3. A-

    12.3%
  4. B+

    6.9%
  5. B

    14.6%
  6. B-

    2.3%
  7. C+

    2.3%
  8. C

    3.8%
  9. C-

    1.5%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1.5%
  1. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The oct 7 2022 date was a known release date for an mcu movie that wasn't revealed. But that date was already pushed back to oct 6 2023.

    This is probably a mistake which coincidentally reveals we can expect Blade for Halloween 2023.
     
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  2. William Skywalker

    William Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, they can crank these movies out pretty fast these days, but exactly one year from now seems a little too fast for a film that hasn't even started filming yet.

    I remember those rumors about a Werewolf by Night Halloween special on Disney+ next year. I wonder if whoever plays him will show up in Blade (or vice versa) because I'm fully expecting Marvel to build up to an MCU version of the Midnight Sons/Nightstalkers with Blade, Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night, Ghost Rider, etc., with Doctor Strange bringing the group together.
     
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  3. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    Blade on October 7th and then The Marvels on November 11th.

    That's really close together. Other than the first two MCU movies (Iron Man came out on May 2nd and The Incredible Hulk came out on June 13) the MCU has pretty much kept the minimum about 2 months between movies.

    I think it's pretty likely an error and it's not coming out on October 7th.
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, Oct. of next year does seem to soon for Blade.
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  6. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Hell, yeah!

    They have a theme song already to go!
     
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  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder how they'll explain her breaking free from the brainwash that Wanda left her in.
     
  8. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They could use the show as an excuse to introduce more Marvel magic users, maybe Agatha has a friend/enemy/etc who tries to find her and ends up freeing her. It could be some weird, obscure Marvel hero (like, say, Dr. Druid) or even someone like Nicholas Scratch, aka the evil son of Agatha Harkness in the comics.

    Or maybe Agatha is too strong to be kept under the control of Wanda's magic for long when Wanda isn't actively there enforcing the spell. Wanda may have more raw power then Agatha, but she's inexperienced and I could see her effect on Agatha not lasting like she thought it would, especially since she just did it and left and probably won't be checking up on Agatha anytime soon.
     
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  10. Wednesday Addams

    Wednesday Addams Princess of the Dark Arts Premium Member

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    A few quick points.

    First, back in the late 30s/early 40s, there were lots of independent comic companies. However, as often happens, many were bought out or forced out of business by the companies that eventually because DC and Marvel. For a look at how truly ugly this sometimes got, please see the example of DC suing Fawcett (publisher of Captain Marvel, now Shazam) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Comics_Publications,_Inc._v._Fawcett_Publications,_Inc.

    Also, comics and other things like movies, syndicated TV, etc. are dependent on the distributor(s). While those are (mostly) unproven, the comic companies who survived often did so because of tight ties with distributors. For example, in 1937, DC was in debt to Harry Donenfeld, who was a pulp magazine publisher, printing-plant owner, and magazine distributor, so they ended up taking him on as a partner. Marvel's founder, Martin Goodman, also owned a newsstand-distribution company. I think they call that "vertical integration" now. :cool:

    Second, revenue streams are somewhat relevant because nobody in those early days could have foreseen the movie, merchandising, and later TV and now digital money that these characters would bring in.

    Third, you are incorrect about royalties. This has changed A LOT in the last few decades, thanks to organizing by creators since about the late 60s. When I saw Denny O'Neil at a con not long before his death in 2020, he said he'd gotten a check recently for an appearance by Maxie Zeus, a character he created for Batman comics in the 70s/80s. It all depends on your contract. George Perez was able to retire recently (health problems) because of the contracts he had with DC. The late comics writer Len Wein said he received more payments from Lucius Fox's appearance in the Batman films — he co-created the character — than he did for another co-creation, Wolverine, despite the success of the X-Men films (https://smallbusiness.chron.com/much-comic-book-artist-make-per-project-12942.html). Obviously, the more popular the character and/or creator, the more leverage they have in their contract negotiations.
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did Neil Gaiman sell all of the rights to Angela to Marvel, or does he still get some money from her appearances?
     
  12. Wednesday Addams

    Wednesday Addams Princess of the Dark Arts Premium Member

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    From what I can see online, Neil sold all rights to her.
     
  13. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It all comes down to contracts. Even then, none of the people you mentioned that get royalties have any right to ownership of their characters, and royalties aren't owed at all to any comic creator who didn't have a contract saying that they would be. So, it all still comes down to people not being owed shit. Steve Ditko would be owed nothing even if he was alive, and sure as hell had no rights to the characters he co-created, unless the family can produce some long hidden secret contract he signed.

    Revenue streams are irrelevant because no one was going to quit the Big 2 because they thought they could create a billion dollar franchise even if they'd known of the possibility. Marvel (and to a much lesser extent, some DC) movies make money because they're made by the MCU (and, rarely, random WB/DC hired) people. If Steve Ditko had created, say, a character like Dr. Strange for himself, the character would have been forgotten a few months after debut and definitely wouldn't have became a major movie, so he wouldn't have made any extra money anyway.

    The amount of creator owned comic properties that become successful in other media is minuscule, and its even smaller in movies then in TV. Basically no one is going to be the next Walking Dead for TV or, I guess, Hellboy for movies (but even Hellboy only worked because it got Del Toro, the second he wasn't involved the next hellboy movie flopped). Even Spawn, one of the most successful independently owned comics, only got a decent but short lived cartoon and a single crappy movie. Marvel/DC, the companies that own them and the people that work for them are who make the billion dollar franchises, indy comic stuff is lucky to get anything outside of the comics.

    So comic creators work for the Big 2 because they either like the Big 2's characters or know its the only place most aspiring comic writers/artists/etc will ever make money, and they have to deal with what that means. They are only owed what their contracts say, they basically never have any rights to any characters they create or co-create, but they wouldn't be making huge franchises out of their ideas outside of Marvel/DC anyway in 99% of cases, which is why most comic book people (at least in the US, and definitely the ones interested in superhero comics) work for the Big 2 companies and don't just do indy work.
     
  14. YLu

    YLu Commander Red Shirt

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    I think you misunderstand what these lawsuits are about. The issue isn't whether or not Marvel owns these characters, which isn't up for debate.

    The issue, as I understand it, is whether these characters were sold to Marvel or done as work for hire. If it's work for hire, Marvel still owns them. But if they were sold to Marvel, then rights can revert to the creator after X number of years due to complicated reasons born out of the history of copyright law.

    What makes it tricky is that Marvel in those early days was such a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants operation that it's not clear cut which category the work belongs in. "Why not just look at what the original contract says?" you ask. No such contract exists, or at least no longer does. That's why it's tricky.

    This is an incredibly blinkered view of the medium and industry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  15. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good observations, and free of fanboy pumping of the supremacy of the so-named "Big two".
     
  16. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  17. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Finally!

    Even though his arrival was heavily hinted by Vol. 2's mid-credits scene, it's good to have it finally confirmed (especially since Gunn had been cagey about the subject in the past, both before his firing and after his rehiring). I really like the casting of Will Poulter who've I liked in Black Mirror: Bandersnatch, Midsommar, and The Underground Railroad. I look forward to seeing what he brings to the role.
     
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  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know this will provoke a "Huh?" reaction due to the casting...but really, that's what happened nearly everytime we had a major casting in the MCU.
     
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  19. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the casting is perfect! Granted, we don't know how far from the source material Gunn might stray, but so far, so good!

    (And even with his own take, I'm still excited, these aren't literal translations)
     
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  20. The Return of Zombie Cheerleader

    The Return of Zombie Cheerleader Moar Nu Trek Pleeze Premium Member

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    I think that boat has sailed, since Warlock was created by a cabal of human scientists.