Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by bbjeg, Apr 6, 2014.

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What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  1. A+

    20.0%
  2. A

    34.6%
  3. A-

    12.3%
  4. B+

    6.9%
  5. B

    14.6%
  6. B-

    2.3%
  7. C+

    2.3%
  8. C

    3.8%
  9. C-

    1.5%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1.5%
  1. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    IDK if this story has been posted. It seems like Sony is having a lot of trouble keeping Spider Man leaks from happening....unless they're letting them happen to keep interest up.

    Spoilers for Spider Man: No Way Home
     
  2. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Yeah, I missed that detail the first time around but then I saw it pointed out in one of the many write-ups about the film.
     
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  3. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Get thee behind me, Mephisto! I will resist the temptation to click... :eek::weep::scream::devil:
     
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  4. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Well if you already know about Mephisto...
     
  5. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    It's nothing we didn't already suspect and talked about in this thread. I even theorized it based on the trailer.

    Edit: I just realized which thread I'm in. I mean the Spider-Man thread. That's where this was talked about before.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  6. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1441439956350738433

    Disney’s Marvel unit is suing to hold on to full control of Avengers characters including Iron Man, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon, Thor and others.

    The complaints, which The Hollywood Reporter has obtained, come against the heirs of some late comic book geniuses including Stan Lee, Steve Ditko and Gene Colan. The suits seek declaratory relief that these blockbuster characters are ineligible for copyright termination as works made for hire. If Marvel loses, Disney would have to share ownership of characters worth billions.



    The lawyer representing the 'heirs' is the same lawyer who sued DC to try to have Superman relinquished(he didn't succeed). The lawyer representing Marvel is the same lawyer who represented DC in that Superman case(he won).

    I would expect the outcome to likely be similar to the Superman/DC case.
     
  7. Evil Headhunter

    Evil Headhunter Scarecrow Keeper Premium Member

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    Here's the original Hollywood Reporter article (so you don't have to go to Twitter first).

    I was unfamiliar with the DC/Superman case until now but I have to say I'm not surprised by this lawsuit, especially in light of the Disney/Star Wars situation where Disney is refusing to pay royalties to authors they're still making money off of.
     
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  8. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The characters were never under the ownership of the individuals, and its especially shitty for the families of the deceased to try to get some money from stuff their relatives did. Disney/Marvel will 100% win this, the only question is whether they'll settle to make this go away quicker or if they'll take it to court to make an example out of the people suing so that they don't have to deal with a dozen of these ridiculous lawsuits. I can just imagine someone like (as a completely made up example) Bill Everett's second cousin (twice removed) suing Disney to get the rights/money for Daredevil and Namor because they saw other people get some money from these types of lawsuits.
     
  9. YLu

    YLu Commander Red Shirt

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    One of the folks involved here is Larry Lieber, who scripted the very first Iron Man and Thor stories and is still very much alive. As for the creators who aren't alive, does anyone doubt they'd rather the money to go to their children and relatives than giant corporations?

    When something similar to all this happened with the Kirby estate, Marvel apparently decided to settle at the eleventh hour rather than risk it going to the Supreme Court, because if they lost there that would set precedent. Maybe, hopefully, the same course will play out this time.
     
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  10. Wednesday Addams

    Wednesday Addams Princess of the Dark Arts Premium Member

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    I hope so. I remember the Seigel & Schuster suit. It took years of fighting just to get "created by" credit. There would be no comics as we know them without these people. It's only right to give a little of the billions back.
     
  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    And Larry is, just for those who weren't aware, Stan Lee's brother.
     
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  12. StCoop

    StCoop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So with Disney and ScarJo having made nice does this mean that the Russo's "Secret Wars" is back on?
     
  13. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What if the Hulk had been an outright villain, or at least villainous, rather than join the team in the first The Avengers?
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have mixed feelings on this, on one hand these people created characters who have literally made Marvel billions of dollars, and the people who created these characters and/or their families definitely deserve to get a lot more of that money and recognition than they have been getting. But at the same time, they had to have gone into this know that they were creating these characters for the companies and not for themselves.
    Obviously they're not going to give complete control of the characters to the original creators or there families, but it would be nice if they maybe give them a little more than what they've been giving them. There have been cases where creators of popular characters have ended up broke, even though the characters they created are still making regular appearances in comics, movies, shows, ect, and that is just ridiculous.
     
  15. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    A big issue is the hypocrisy. It's ok for companies to get copyright law changed every few years to prevent works from ever entering the public domain, but by god if the person who ever actually created a character/story line asks for a fraction of a billion dollar box office "You know the law, you were a contract hire, we don't owe you anything, ya greedy bastard!"
     
  16. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I'm all for Disney giving the creators/families a "bonus", I think DC/WB actually does that sometimes. There is nothing wrong with people getting some money for something they were a part of creating. I just don't believe that those people should own the properties. They knew what they were doing when they created the characters, so trying to get the rights "back, when they never owned the rights to begin with, is something I don't agree with.

    But, since Disney still doesn't even want to pay royalties on books (and comics, I think) that they are actually legally supposed to be paying (arguing that they should not have to pay writers for stories they bought out, and fighting every time they have to like with Alan Dean Foster), I don't see Disney giving much to anyone just out of the "goodness of their hearts".

    I mean, that was the job. They were hired to produce things for a company, not for themselves. I think it would be nice for the companies to give them something just because they're making so much money off the stuff, but the creators/estates have absolutely no argument (in my opinion) that they own anything or are really owed anything.
     
  17. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    And Disney & it's subsidiaries knew copyright laws when they "created" the characters. Doesn't stop them from lobbying to have the law changed everytime a character comes close its public domain date. Why is it ok for them to do that, and not for creators to turn around and ask for funds from revenue streams they never could have ever anticipated existing when they signed the original contracts?
     
  18. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They knew they didn't own the characters. The revenue streams don't matter, the comic creators were working for the company and the company owned the things they made. If they didn't like it, they could have tried to go and build their own comic company, or just found a different industry to work in.

    You're copyright discussion has nothing to do with the companies owning the characters we're talking about right now, with the exception of a few of the late 30s/early 40s characters who might have been public domain by now. Revenue streams only make sense when talking about things like movies and TV, which dealt with new types of royalties as things like streaming were invented. Comics didn't have royalties of any kind for decades, and even today they only (sometimes) have royalties from comic reprints, not from use of characters because the characters are owned by the companies. No creator who worked for DC/Marvel is owned a cent from things like movies unless there was some kind of contract or contract violation involved. I think it would be nice if Disney kicked back some money when using a character in a major role in a movie, but its as a nice thing to do, not a requirement.

    Steve Gerber learned all this in his crusade to try to take the rights to Howard the Duck, a character he created but never owned and (rightfully, in my opinion) got his ass kicked in court.

    Personally, when it comes to the public domain, as long as a character is being used by the company/group that made it, I don't think they should ever be public domain. No random person should have the right to ever do stuff with, say, Mickey Mouse just because Walt Disney is dead. I'm looser with individual creators work (Sherlock Holmes being public domain makes sense), but Mickey Mouse is the icon of a huge company that has been using him for decades, so public domain shouldn't apply there and I'll never mind Disney fighting to keep their stuff. But, again, the public domain argument has nothing to do with creators trying to basically steal rights they never had to characters they created.
     
  19. StCoop

    StCoop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  20. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe it's a mistake? I thought they weren't supposed to start filming until July 2022.
    If true then things came together for them really quickly to get this out so fast.