Marvel All New, All Different - Ongoing Discussion (Spoilers)

[Turtletrekker]

OK, I've been a little behind on my comic reading, but I've finally managed to catch up.

Secret Wars 9-- I liked it. I was afraid that it was going to suffer from what many events do, a great set-up with a lackluster resolution, but I was completely satisfied. I found it ironic that after Hickman built up this story over 85-odd issues of Avengers books, the conclusion read like it belonged as a part of his FF run.

But I didn't read any crossovers, so I do have some questions. First off-- what is the state of the multiverse?* I know Reed, Sue and the Future Foundation are creating new universes through the powers of Franklin and Owen**, but did any of the other Battleworld realms have their universes restored? The continued presence of Spider-Gwen and Web-Warriors would imply such, but the Ultimate Universe is gone? Unlucky coin toss? Are Reed and Miles the only survivors of the UU?

Still enjoying Totally Awesome Hulk. I thought the revelation that Maddie has the same abilities as Amadeus was interesting. I now wonder if, like her brother, she believed that her entire family had been killed and went into hiding, using her abilities to survive.

Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange-- Scarlet Witch has been alright, but not particularly engaging or memorable. I'll give it a few more issues to get better, at least through the upcoming crossover with Doctor Strange, and then decide its fate. Doctor Strange, on the other hand I am greatly enjoying. Never a huge fan of Chris Bachalo's work, but it's a good fit for Strange.

I loved Ant-Man, Hawkeye and Silver Surfer before Secret Wars, and am very happy that they all seem to have survived the wars more or less intact.

Mark Guggenheim's first issue of Agents of SHIELD was interesting, but I did have one serious WTF moment.

Spoiler: Agents of SHIELD 1

Fitz and... May? Fitz and MAY?? Are you fucking kidding me?

New Avengers has been kind of "meh". I'm enjoying certain plot threads that are coming to head concerning Billy/Wiccan/Whatever his new name is, but otherwise, it needs to get better fast.

Still buying Guardians of the Galaxy, but ironically enough, it's more for Kitty Pryde and Ben Grimm than for any of the traditional Guardians.

Spidey has been OK. I'll give it a few more issues.

Dropped Daredevil.

Looking forward to Waid and Samnee's Black Widow, and will probably check out Steve Rogers return as Captain America.

*How often does one get to legitimately ask that question? I love comics.
**Whatever happened to Volcana?

 

[Mr Light]

I don't understand about continuity in the aftermath of Secret Wars. We saw Doctor Strange sell his soul and become the leader of an army of terrifying monsters and become Doom's lackey and then die. He's been a tortured grimdark character for the entirety of Hickman's Avengers saga. But now he's in a new comic and he's pretty happy go lucky, he's alive, and there's been zero mention of all the horrible things he did. Or him dying.

Did Secret Wars #9 erase the events of the entire Hickman Avengers time period? Did we see Black Panther using the Time Gem to go back in time to New Avengers #1, the start of Hickman's run, thus negating the entirety of it? Or is it just that everyone's memories have been erased of Battleworld? Did Iron Man and Captain America still beat the shit out of each other while the world was falling apart? Do they still hate on each other now?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'm OK with the relationship in AoS. These are comic versions, not TV versions, so changes are OK. I'm not sure spoiler code is necessary, but just in case:

Spoiler

In Mark Waid's series, I recall Fitz and May interacting as well in the issue where all the magic people were being shot. It may be the only interaction Fitz had with anyone. My only complaint is it seemed May was drawn as a lot younger. I hope it wasn't to make the relationship seem more palatable.

 

[Saga]

I don't understand about continuity in the aftermath of Secret Wars. We saw Doctor Strange sell his soul and become the leader of an army of terrifying monsters and become Doom's lackey and then die. He's been a tortured grimdark character for the entirety of Hickman's Avengers saga. But now he's in a new comic and he's pretty happy go lucky, he's alive, and there's been zero mention of all the horrible things he did. Or him dying.

Did Secret Wars #9 erase the events of the entire Hickman Avengers time period? Did we see Black Panther using the Time Gem to go back in time to New Avengers #1, the start of Hickman's run, thus negating the entirety of it? Or is it just that everyone's memories have been erased of Battleworld? Did Iron Man and Captain America still beat the shit out of each other while the world was falling apart? Do they still hate on each other now?

i like the new Dr Strange series...but it does not line up with Hickman's stuff as you point out. and Strange himself seems out of character. it seems like they've turned him into a kind of hipster and woman chaser. not the moody magic user i remember from the 70s/80s.

 

[Mr Light]

I haven't read the Strange comic but I know he has a history with the ladies like Tony Stark. So maybe it's consistent the character in the 60s/70s, but it has nothing to do with the iteration of Strange we've been seeing in the past 5 years. I suppose we could blame Reed's reconstruction of the universe?

 

[Guy Gardener]

LIght, in Ms Marvel, she says that there was an apocalypse that wasn't. She sat on a roof top kissing a boy because the world was ending, the world went white for a second, and then back to normal, didn't end, and she was still kissing that boy, so she stopped kissing him.

So, it's just a 9 months to a year later after nothing happened, and no one(? Reed, Franklin and Sue? Doesn't Doom wonder how he got his face back?) remembers Battleworld.

Almost Every Zone on Battle World, hundreds of them, maybe thousands, had their own version of Stephen Strange who were not murdered, or had super odd shit happen to them like zombification, or wrapped in Iron Man armour they couldn't pry off or it's still 1941. The death of one Strange doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Spoilers from the end of Secret Wars.

Spoiler: You should know this

Franklin's super power is to design intricate universes. I'm not saying that he super got off on the Lego Movie (Did they call Franklin a Master Builder? I just threw up a little.). In his mind, Franklin designs intricate universes like Heroes Reborn, but then barely has the power to bring even one planet to life that he has designed. Fortunately his dad is God now, who can build an endless number of universes effortlessly after his son's imagination has given him the specifications to build to. Doom had the power to build a multiverse but not the imagination to lock together a trillion trillion moving parts for an infinite number of new universes.

So if Franklin and Reed are still on Battleworld (and immortal?) rebuilding a new multiverse, the adventures that we are following now of Earth 616, are not the old adventures of Earth Earth 616 at all they?

It's a different but very similar world, unless you're Miles Morales and everyone else shipped over from the 1610, who are now living on a very different un-Ultimate world, but haven't seemed to notice. No seriously, Mile's mum and dad and his school and his supporting characters all live on 616 now. They're not refugees, they have always been there, and Magneto never flooded New York.

616a.

616a is a "good enough" replica of 616.

Unless Reed Richards, God, created everyone on every planet in the universe from nothing like the 6th day of Genesis, he must have relocated a lot of people who should be on 616 from various battle world zones to 616a and altered their memories, and made them 8 years younger (Doom ruled battle world for 8 years?) to create a home for Reed and Franklin to kick back at/on with a familiar feel to it. 616a is a 16 billion year old new universe created recently by Franklin and Reed and not the same MCU that we grew up with, even though it's nearly indistinguishable in most of the comic books that we have been buying for decades.

 

[Mr Light]

I think I read an interview where they won't call it 616 anymore but Earth-Prime. Which is also what DCU calls it now I believe.

 

[Turtletrekker]

You don't even need to refer to an interview, it says it right there in SW9-- "Eight Months Later. The Marvel Universe. The Prime Earth."

But that still doesn't answer my question about the continued existence of the various cross-world Spider-related books from the pre-SW era. Perhaps it's a point that hasn't yet been addressed, but until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume that Reed, Franklin and Owen were able to restore some of the various other worlds as well as their own. If there was a way, Reed Richards would find it. This is a man who once restored a dying Galactus to health with no guarantee that the Big G wouldn't just stand up and try and eat the planet again. Which he did!

And I don't know if Ultimate Reed/The Maker remembers Battleworld or not, but he certainly remembers the world he came from. It's kind of implied that Black Panther remembers as he seems to have come up with a plan this time.

Like I said, I didn't read any of the crossovers. Was there a specific mechanism employed in "Ultimate End" that allowed various characters to crossover? Or was restoring certain people the favor that Owen told Miles that he owed him for bringing him an eight year old burger that he kept in his pocket?

 

[Mr Light]

I was very confused about this but to the best of my knowledge "Ultimate End" was not showing the actual 1610 universe but a Ultimate-esque universe meeting a 1616-esque universe. Which pissed me off

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ultimate End was the final convergence, like had happened in all those other books where the Illuminati bombed a World to save their own Earth.

The last two Earths standing.

Half way through Ultimate End (I don't think it's actually finished. There might be another issue left?) they just started casually mentioning Lord Doom and God (Doom) seemlessly as if this story wasn't about the last convergence (616 vs 1610) any more, but about a Battle World Zone now where (the appearance of) a convergence was happening as a thematic backdrop.

The Effects of Doom becoming God were felt in this book, but the change over of power was not seen in this book.

 

[DEWLine]

The editors and writers can do as they like. The readers - in all our faction-riven glory - will do likewise. Particularly where cataloguing fictons is concerned.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They ever going to dump the "WWII Propaganda" covers for Captain Marvel?

 

[Hound of UIster]

i like the new Dr Strange series...but it does not line up with Hickman's stuff as you point out. and Strange himself seems out of character. it seems like they've turned him into a kind of hipster and woman chaser. not the moody magic user i remember from the 70s/80s.

It's imo based more on the depiction of the character from Fraction's Defenders.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm liking All New All Different Avengers and Ultimates. Ultimates #5 confused me further about what did and didn't happen during Hickman's Avengers and Secret Wars though.

Spoiler

So, Eternity is alive again. After being killed by the Ivory Kings. Does this mean that Reed and Franklin willed him back to life? Or did the events of Time Runs Out never happen? Are the Ivory Kings still alive? If they are, wouldn't it all happen over again?

 

[Turtletrekker]

See the Silver Surfer crossover.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This is 616a.

Miles Morales was born in this Universe which is not the Ultimate Universe.

Which is weird since miles was on Reed's life boat, sidingstepping God Doom's brainwashing, and then survived Battleworld to it's conclusion.

If this is the same kid, he's not talking about remembering Battleworld and the Ultimate Universe (which is a massive secret to keep from the Avengers, who by the way are dicks) or Reed has brainwashed and rebuilt reality around the boy... Ditto for the Maker.

If there is a story that "obviously" follows on from Battleworld, I don't think we've seen it yet.

616, the Universe we followed since 1962 is Battleworld alone in a barren lifeless universe where Reed Richards is God.

 

[Guy Gardener]

See the Silver Surfer crossover.

Are you talking about today or a week ago?

So many comics. I'm drowning!

(Help me.)

 

[Turtletrekker]

IIRC, the Silver Surfer Secret Wars crossover showed the rebirth of Eternity.

 

[Awesome Possum]

This is 616a.

Miles Morales was born in this Universe which is not the Ultimate Universe.

Which is weird since miles was on Reed's life boat, sidingstepping God Doom's brainwashing, and then survived Battleworld to it's conclusion.

If this is the same kid, he's not talking about remembering Battleworld and the Ultimate Universe (which is a massive secret to keep from the Avengers, who by the way are dicks) or Reed has brainwashed and rebuilt reality around the boy... Ditto for the Maker.

If there is a story that "obviously" follows on from Battleworld, I don't think we've seen it yet.

616, the Universe we followed since 1962 is Battleworld alone in a barren lifeless universe where Reed Richards is God.

I saw some interview with the writer of the Miles comic, he said that Miles is one of the few characters to remember the Ultimate universe.

 

[Guy Gardener]

(K.I.S.S.)

Of course, if that was true (which it probably is.) Miles would be in some serious denial about the nature of all his personal relationships.

And Ganke! It wasn't an easy path at all, but he was on an unlikely, or more than likely impossible road to maybe getting to first base with an almost age appropriate Gwen Stacy.

Cock Blocked by Dr Doom and the end of the multiverse.



(We've all been there?)