Marco Palmieri's Star Trek Projects

[Greg Cox]

No, Tor.com has its own separate staff. And Marco is just one of numerous fiction editors Tor/Forge has; I think it's the biggest SF/fantasy publisher in the country.

At last count, there were probably more than twenty editors, counting various associates, assistants, and consultings.

 

[OCD Geek]

No, Tor.com has its own separate staff. And Marco is just one of numerous fiction editors Tor/Forge has; I think it's the biggest SF/fantasy publisher in the country.

At last count, there were probably more than twenty editors, counting various associates, assistants, and consultings.

Gotcha. I misunderstood. I don't really know a lot about book publishers. Aside from reading Harry Potter in junior high, I've always been more of a film/TV geek than a reader/book geek.

My love of the Meyer/Nimoy Trek films and Deep Space Nine (as well as long-form storytelling in general), my fascination with the ambition and creative process involved in long-form storytelling (hence my Marco preoccupation) and Treklit writer Kirsten Beyer being hired as a Discovery writer by Bryan Fuller (Hannibal was sublime) have all inspired me to dive into the Lit-verse.

I've been scouring this forum for over a year now, reading best-of lists and "where to begin" guides in preparation for this. I can't wait to get started!

 

[James Swallow]

Did Marco edit James Swallow's Titan novel Synthesis, or was I wrong in my assumption?

Marco was the commissioning editor for Synthesis, but he left Pocket around the time the book was going through first-pass edits.

 

[Greg Cox]

Gotcha. I misunderstood. I don't really know a lot about book publishers. Aside from reading Harry Potter in junior high, I've always been more of a film/TV geek than a reader/book geek.

My love of the Meyer/Nimoy Trek films and Deep Space Nine (as well as long-form storytelling in general), my fascination with the ambition and creative process involved in long-form storytelling (hence my Marco preoccupation) and Treklit writer Kirsten Beyer being hired as a Discovery writer by Bryan Fuller (Hannibal was sublime) have all inspired me to dive into the Lit-verse.

This has been discussed elsewhere, but Meyer also wrote a best-selling Sherlock Holmes novel many years ago, The Seven-Percent Solution, which is worth checking. He also wrote two other Holmes novels, The West End Horror and The Canary Trainer, although they sufferer in comparison to his first one.

And suddenly that Holmes reference in The Undiscovered Country makes sense, doesn't it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

This has been discussed elsewhere, but Meyer also wrote a best-selling Sherlock Holmes novel many years ago, The Seven-Percent Solution, which is worth checking. He also wrote two other Holmes novels, The West End Horror and The Canary Trainer, although they sufferer in comparison to his first one.

I was thrilled to get Meyer to autograph all three at Farpoint two weeks ago. (I briefly considered also getting his signature on a trade paperback of IDW's adaptation of Seven Per-Cent, but then I decided I was being greedy and an autograph on the graphic novel was superfluous anyway.)

For me, The West End Horror is almost on par with Seven Per-Cent. I liked the conceit of Sherlock Holmes running around, having an adventure with all of the leading literary lights of the 1890s. It's just a fun book.

The Canary Trainer is, unfortunately, pretty weak sauce. The concept has promise -- Sherlock Holmes matching wits with the Phantom of the Opera during the Great Hiatus -- but Meyer doesn't execute it very well, and it doesn't help that Sam Siciliano did, at almost the same time, virtually the same story only much better in The Angel of the Opera. If you want to read a Holmes vs. the Opera Ghost novel, read Siciliano's, not Meyer's.

 

[Greg Cox]

For me, The West End Horror is almost on par with Seven Per-Cent. I liked the conceit of Sherlock Holmes running around, having an adventure with all of the leading literary lights of the 1890s. It's just a fun book..

I don't know. Mind you, I haven't read the book in literally decades, so take my opinions with a grain of a salt, but I recall that there was less of a point to the sequel--and all the literary cameos.

The Seven Percent Solution was not just a nostalgic Sherlock Holmes pastiche. It had some meat to it and a generally fresh, revisionist agenda: let's deal seriously with Holmes' addiction to cocaine and his deeper psychological issues. And the stuff with Freud was intrinsic to that. It wasn't just "Holmes and Freud team up to solve a mystery!" It was "Holmes and Freud team up to beat his addiction to cocaine--and uncover the hidden traumas that made Holmes who he was."

The West End Horror felt slight by comparison. With Holmes's psychological issues sorted out, it becomes just another, admittedly enjoyable Sherlock Holmes pastiche, and the cameos by famous real-life people feel more gimmicky. "Look, it's Oscar Wilde . . . and George Bernard Shaw . . . and Bram Stoker," etc.

Speaking of the Phantom of the Opera, however, I'm current enjoying Angels of Music by Kim Newman, which is basically a steampunk version of Charlie's Angels with the Phantom as "Charlie." And the Angels are all famous literary heroines such as Irene
Adler, Liza Doolittle, Gigi, etc.

It's a lot of fun so far.

 

[OCD Geek]

Sorry that it's been a while. I had a bad case of work and laziness.

Marco was the commissioning editor for Synthesis, but he left Pocket around the time the book was going through first-pass edits.

Thanks! I'm going to remove it from my list then, just to keep it focused on the 100% Palmieri stuff. I'll probably read it someday, though. All of your Titan novels seem to be highly regarded.

This has been discussed elsewhere, but Meyer also wrote a best-selling Sherlock Holmes novel many years ago, The Seven-Percent Solution, which is worth checking. He also wrote two other Holmes novels, The West End Horror and The Canary Trainer, although they sufferer in comparison to his first one.

And suddenly that Holmes reference in The Undiscovered Country makes sense, doesn't it.

Cool! I'll have to check that out sometime. I'll put it on my to do list next to re-watching Time After Time. I haven't seen it in years. I was about eight when my dad borrowed a VHS copy from the county library. It was too slow and uneventful for me at the time, but I was eight so what the hell did I know.

Okay, I've also thrown Klingon Empire: A Burning House under DS9 Relaunch side stories. I know that it's the fifth novel in KRAD's I.K.S. Gorkon series, but it feels right to place it there for a few reasons:

1) It was designed to be a soft reboot/rebranding that allowed new readers to pick up A Burning House and easily follow the exciting "new" Klingon Empire series.

2) It features several characters that originated on DS9 (Bashir, Ezri, Nog, Martok and Leskit along with TNG/DS9's Rodek/Kurn and Worf).

3) One of the storylines is a sequel to the DS9 episode "Sons of Mogh".

4) The other three storylines are character-based world building that appears to fit nicely alongside the Klingon/Cardassian world building of The Left Hand of Destiny and The Never-Ending Sacrifice. And Serpents Among the Ruins, The Art of the Impossible and Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers, for that matter.

I'm thinking about posting reviews in this thread as I go along. I don't know. Maybe my perspective would be a somewhat unique one.

Other than briefly skimming one of the Worf in Starfleet Academy books when I was in elementary school, this will be my first foray into Trek novels. Aside from Joss Whedon's Fray and Christos Gage's Buffy and Angel comics (Which are terrific, by the way.), this is my first experience with media tie-ins. And other than those comics, Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run, Watchmen and Harry Potter I haven't read much of anything. I've always been more of a film/TV geek than a comic/novel geek.

We'll see. I don't want to post reviews if they're redundant or annoying to other posters.

Anywho, this what I've narrowed my "to read" list down to. Going by postings and ratings here and on Amazon and Goodreads this seems to be the core of Marco's work. I've added A Burning House and Articles of the Federation to my previous "to read" list.

Deep Space Nine Relaunch: "Season Eight"
series bible and pre-planned narrative by Marco Palmieri

• Book I: Avatar, Book One (2001) S.D. Perry
• Book II: Avatar, Book Two (2001) S.D. Perry
• Book III: Section 31: Abyss (2001) Jeffrey Lang with David Weddle
• Book IV: Gateways: Demons of Air and Darkness (2001) Keith R.A. DeCandido
• Novella: Gateways: "Horn and Ivory" (2001) Keith R.A. DeCandido
• Book V: Mission Gamma: Twilight (2002) David R. George III
• Book VI: Mission Gamma: This Gray Spirit (2002) Heather Jarman
• Book VII: Mission Gamma: Cathedral (2002) Michael A. Martin and Andy Mangels
• Book VIII: Mission Gamma: Lesser Evil (2002) Robert Simpson
• Book IX: Rising Son (2003) S.D. Perry
• Book X: Unity (2003) S.D. Perry

DS9 Relaunch side stories

• The Lives of Dax (1999)
  • "Second Star to the Right..." Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens
  • "First Steps" Kristine Kathryn Rusch
  • "Dead Man's Hand" Jeffrey Lang
  • "Old Souls" Michael Jan Friedman
  • "Sins of the Mother" S.D. Perry
  • "Infinity" Susan Wright
  • "Allegro Ouroboros in D Minor" S.D. Perry and Robert Simpson
  • "The Music Between the Notes" Steven Barnes
  • "Reflections" L.A. Graf
  • "...And Straight on 'til Morning" Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens
• Prophecy and Change (2003)
  • "Revisited, Part One" Anonymous (an uncredited Palmieri?)
  • "Ha'mara" Kevin G. Summers
  • "The Orb of Opportunity" Michael A. Martin and Andy Mangels
  • "Broken Oaths" Keith R.A. DeCandido
  • "...Loved I Not Honor More" Christopher L. Bennett
  • "Three Sides to Every Story" Terri Osborne
  • "The Devil You Know" Heather Jarman
  • "Foundlings" Jeffrey Lang
  • "Chiaroscuro" Geoffrey Thorne
  • "Face Value" Una McCormack
  • "The Calling" Andrew J. Robinson
  • "Revisited, Part Two" Anonymous (an uncredited Palmieri?)
• The Left Hand of Destiny (2 volumes) 2003 Jeffrey Lang with J.G. Hertzler
  
• Hollow Men (2005) Una McCormack
• Klingon Empire: A Burning House (2008) Keith R.A. DeCandido
  
• The Never-Ending Sacrifice (2009) Una McCormack

The Lost Era: DS9 Relaunch prequels

• Serpents Among the Ruins (2003) David R. George III
• The Art of the Impossible (2003) Keith R.A. DeCandido
• Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers (2008) James Swallow

The Next Generation

• Immortal Coil (2002) Jeffrey Lang
• The Lost Era: The Buried Age (2007) Christopher L. Bennett

Articles of the Federation (2005) Keith R.A. DeCandido


Vanguard
series bible and pre-planned narrative by Marco Palmieri and David Mack

• Book I: Harbinger (2005) David Mack
• Book II: Summon the Thunder (2006) Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
• Book III: Reap the Whirlwind (2007) David Mack
• Book IV: Open Secrets (2009) Dayton Ward Marco's last Vanguard novel
• Book V: Precipice (2009) David Mack
• Anthology: Declassified (2011)
  • "Almost Tomorrow" Dayton Ward
  • "Hard News" Kevin Dilmore
  • "The Ruins of Noble Men" Marco Palmieri
  • "The Stars Look Down" David Mack
• Book VI: What Judgments Come (2011) Dayton Ward and Kevin Dilmore
• Book VII: Storming Heaven (2012) David Mack

Destiny
(co-edited with Margaret Clark) David Mack

• Book I: Gods of Night (2008)
• Book II: Mere Mortals (2008)
• Book III: Lost Souls (2008)

Voyager Relaunch: "Season Nine"
series bible and pre-planned narrative by Marco Palmieri and Kirsten Beyer; written by Kirsten Beyer

• Book I: Full Circle (2009)
• Book II: Unworthy (2009) Marco's last Voyager novel
• Book III: Children of the Storm (2011)
• Book IV: The Eternal Tide (2012)
• Book V: Protectors (2014)
• Book VI: Acts of Contrition (2014)
• Book VII: Atonement (2015)
• Book VIII: A Pocket Full of Lies (2016)
• Book IX: Architects of Infinity (2017)
• Book X: To Lose the Earth (2017)

I'm going to hold off on any non-Palmieri novels for right now, but I will be reading the following since they wrap up loose ends from Marco's Avatar-Unity DS9 arc (Garak's efforts to rebuild post-war Cardassia, Bashir's efforts to take down Section 31 and Shar's efforts to find a solution to Andor's reproduction crisis). I doesn't hurt that they're beloved Trek novels too.

DS9 Relaunch: The Garak Arc

• A Stitch in Time (2000) Andrew J. Robinson
• The Fall: The Crimson Shadow (2013) Una McCormack
• Enigma Tales (2017) Una McCormack

DS9: Relaunch: The Bashir Arc David Mack

• Book I: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game (2010)
• Book II: The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses (2013)
• Book III: Section 31: Disavowed (2014)
• Book IV: Section 31: Control (2017)

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Christopher]

Thanks! I'm going to remove it from my list then, just to keep it focused on the 100% Palmieri stuff. I'll probably read it someday, though. All of your Titan novels seem to be highly regarded.

I think that's an overreaction. The "first-pass edits" that James talked about would, if I interpret him right, just be textual edits to the galleys to correct typos and grammar issues and things like that -- nothing to do with the concepts and plotting and writing per se. I mean, that stage is done by proofreaders anyway. So Marco's presence or absence would've made little difference by that point.

And Synthesis is a pretty direct follow-up to my own Over a Torrent Sea, the last book I did for Marco. It picks up only about 3 weeks later, which is the shortest interval between TTN installments since the first three books (counting Destiny as a single story), and follows up on some of OaTS's character threads. By contrast, the next TTN book after that, Seize the Fire, was set a whole year later and was pretty much disconnected from the continuity of the earlier books. So the logical place to draw the dividing line between Marco-era and Margaret-era Titan is after Synthesis, not before it.

 

[JD]

You could probably still follow it OK, but just to warn you Ceremony of Innocence does build quite a bit of off books you don't have on your list. I don't know if you'd necessarily not be able to follow it, but I do think you'll lose a lot of impact if you haven't read the books it follows up on. Either way, I think it's still good to be aware you're jumping around in a story there.

 

[OCD Geek]

I think that's an overreaction. The "first-pass edits" that James talked about would, if I interpret him right, just be textual edits to the galleys to correct typos and grammar issues and things like that -- nothing to do with the concepts and plotting and writing per se. I mean, that stage is done by proofreaders anyway. So Marco's presence or absence would've made little difference by that point.

And Synthesis is a pretty direct follow-up to my own Over a Torrent Sea, the last book I did for Marco. It picks up only about 3 weeks later, which is the shortest interval between TTN installments since the first three books (counting Destiny as a single story), and follows up on some of OaTS's character threads. By contrast, the next TTN book after that, Seize the Fire, was set a whole year later and was pretty much disconnected from the continuity of the earlier books. So the logical place to draw the dividing line between Marco-era and Margaret-era Titan is after Synthesis, not before it.

That's good enough for me. It's back on the list.

You could probably still follow it OK, but just to warn you Ceremony of Innocence does build quite a bit of off books you don't have on your list. I don't know if you'd necessarily not be able to follow it, but I do think you'll lose a lot of impact if you haven't read the books it follows up on. Either way, I think it's still good to be aware you're jumping around in a story there.

How essential is DRGIII's Typhon Pact trilogy? Is it any good? Does is provide further closure for the Avatar-Unity arc and maybe even act as a workable (albeit belated) finale? And would reading it eliminate any potential problems with Una and David Mack's subsequent DS9 story arcs loosing some of their impact?

 

[JD]

They're after the books go through the DS9R does a big time jump, but they do tie heavily into the other post time jump books. There's a HUGE event in the end of Plagues of Night that effects every book involving DS9 from that point on.
The thing to keep in mind just in general is that the books are all fairly interconnected now, so by jumping around in series you will be missing a lot of stuff.
What you're doing sounds like fun, but to be completely honest with you I don't know if I'd recommend it as a first read through. I would recommend just picking a series and going through it rather than going by something like who the editor is. That seems to me like the kind of thing that would work better on a second read through, once you know the stories and can just fill in the gaps from memory.

 

[David Mack]

I'm surprised you'd exclude the two Worlds of Deep Space Nine volumes, as well as the DS9 Mirror Universe arc that I kicked off in Warpath, and which was completed by Olivia Woods in Fearful Symmetry and The Soul Key.

 

[OCD Geek]

They're after the books go through the DS9R does a big time jump, but they do tie heavily into the other post time jump books. There's a HUGE event in the end of Plagues of Night that effects every book involving DS9 from that point on.
The thing to keep in mind just in general is that the books are all fairly interconnected now, so by jumping around in series you will be missing a lot of stuff.
What you're doing sounds like fun, but to be completely honest with you I don't know if I'd recommend it as a first read through. I would recommend just picking a series and going through it rather than going by something like who the editor is. That seems to me like the kind of thing that would work better on a second read through, once you know the stories and can just fill in the gaps from memory.

I know the general gist of the post-Marco Litverse novels. I've lurked here for a few years, read up on Memories Alpha and Beta and and am scarily okay with spoilers. If a story doesn't work because you already know what happens in it, then it wasn't a very good story to begin with. The Sixth Sense still works even if you know the twist, for example.

I've even watched series finales of some shows first to see if it was emotionally involving enough out of context for me to want to go back and watch all of the preceding context. I'm really, really weird. I'm the one person in the world that's not only completely okay with family and friends spoiling the hell out of movies and TV shows but actively encourages it.

I'm surprised you'd exclude the two Worlds of Deep Space Nine volumes, as well as the DS9 Mirror Universe arc that I kicked off in Warpath, and which was completed by Olivia Woods in Fearful Symmetry and The Soul Key.

Although, some of Worlds of DS9 and your Warpath were well-received (as was DRGIII's Typhon Pact trilogy), the mixed reception that met some of Worlds of DS9, Olivia Woods' novels and the rest of DRGIII's post-Marco DS9 work gives me pause. Especially since the series is going on indefinitely.

I also don't have much by way of expendable income, but I don't want to get anything used to save money. I want to buy everything via ebooks on Amazon. I understand that Trek-lit fandom is a sub-fandom within a cult fandom, and due to that I want some of my money to go to the authors to reward them for their work. Buying all of the intertwined post-Destiny Litverse novels is a major investment, even little by little over the course of several years.

That's why I'm trying to find a good natural jumping off point (like the fifth seasons of Buffy and Supernatural or the eighth seasons of The X-Files and Stargate SG-1) that provides needed closure. I'm cool with buying the Garak and Bashir arcs since they provide further closure to the Avatar-Unity arc and are supposed to be fantastic, but I'm unsure of Rough Beasts of Empire, Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn. However, it seems I need to read them to get the most out of the Garak and Bashir arcs.

If I went straight from Unity to the Typhon Pact trilogy would it work as a belated finale event (like going from 24: Season 5 to Live Another Day, Veronica Mars: Season 2 to the movie or Gilmore Girls: Season 6 to A Year in the Life)? Or would reading Worlds of DS9 but skipping the Dominion: Olympus Descending, its cliffhanger ending and the Mirror Universe/Ascendant arc work better?

 

[David Mack]

Or would reading Worlds of DS9 but skipping the Dominion: Olympus Descending, its cliffhanger ending and the Mirror Universe/Ascendant arc work better?

If you mean skipping TO Olympus Descending followed by Warpath, et al, then I think that would work.

Sounds as if you've quite a bit of reading ahead of you. Enjoy!

 

[Destructor]

I'm surprised you'd exclude the two Worlds of Deep Space Nine volumes, as well as the DS9 Mirror Universe arc that I kicked off in Warpath, and which was completed by Olivia Woods in Fearful Symmetry and The Soul Key.

I love the TrekBBS!

 

[OCD Geek]

The thing to keep in mind just in general is that the books are all fairly interconnected now, so by jumping around in series you will be missing a lot of stuff.
What you're doing sounds like fun, but to be completely honest with you I don't know if I'd recommend it as a first read through. I would recommend just picking a series and going through it rather than going by something like who the editor is. That seems to me like the kind of thing that would work better on a second read through, once you know the stories and can just fill in the gaps from memory.

If you mean skipping TO Olympus Descending followed by Warpath, et al, then I think that would work.

Okay. I hear you. I'll read Worlds of DS9, Warpath and Fearful Symmetry/The Soul Key.

Final questions. If I read Avatar-The Soul Key, the Destiny trilogy and DRGIII's Typhon Pact trilogy would I be able to follow Una's later Garak novels and your later Bashir novels without having to read Revelation and Dust, Sacraments of Fire, Ascendance, Force and Motion and The Long Mirage?

And (Ascendance arc and Taran'atar aside) would DRGIII's Typhon Pact trilogy work as a series finale to the DS9 Relaunch's main arc?

 

[JD]

Not really, it's not really that connected to the stuff that was going on during the earlier parts of the DS9 Relaunch. I tend to think of Avatar-The Soul Key as DS9R Phase One, and Zero Sum Game on as Phase Two.

 

[OCD Geek]

Is this better?

DS9 Relaunch: "Season Eight" (Avatar-Unity)

DS9 Relaunch: "Season Nine" (Worlds of DS9-The Soul Key)

Star Trek: Destiny

DS9 Relaunch: "Season Ten"

• Book I: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empire (2011) DRGIII
• Book II: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game (2010) Mack
• Book III: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night (2012) DRGIII
• Book IV: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn (2012) DRGIII
• Book V: The Fall: Revelation and Dust (2013) DRGIII
• Book VI: The Fall: The Crimson Shadow (2013) McCormack
• Book VII: The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses (2013) Mack
• Book VIII: The Fall: The Poisoned Chalice (2013) Swallow
• Book IX: The Fall: Peaceable Kingdoms (2013) Ward
• Book X: Section 31: Disavowed (2014) Mack
• Book XI: Section 31: Control (2017) Mack
• Book XII: Enigma Tales (2017) McCormack

I'd be skipping The Missing, Sacraments of Fire/Ascendance, Force and Motion and The Long Mirage. Would that work?

 

[Jedi Ben]

You'll be missing some major pieces of the puzzle doing that. Especially in terms of how one plot from The Fall: RaD plays out.

 

[OCD Geek]

How important are A Singular Destiny, Paths of Disharmony and Brinkmanship to the second phase of the DS9 Relaunch? Are they skip-able like Seize the Fire, The Missing and Force and Motion seem to be? Or are they worth reading?