• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

News Marcia Lucas calls out Kennedy and Abrams, pans the Sequels

Well, Harrison Ford is a bigger name actor than either Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher, and he had a larger role in TFA than them anyway, especially Hamill. Plus, Ford was also the first name listed in the credits, which essentially makes him the lead, so of course he'd be paid more.

And? Roddenberry created Star Trek while employed by a studio which was eventually bought out by Viacom/Paramount/CBS. He knew what that meant at the time, even if later in life he acted as though he were Star Trek's Lord and Master. Lucas meanwhile chose to sell Star Wars to Disney of his own accord and knew what that meant.
Um...no. Gene Roddenberry PITCHED Star Trek to all the studios and was initially panned. He didn't create it 'for' or 'under' any studio. He did produce it for the studio; and because the studios were putting up the majority of the production costs had it in the agreement that the studio would own the rights at the end of the series IF GR decided not to exercise an option in the agreement to buy them back -- which he didn't in the end because of how he was feeling. Remember - the series was pretty much a ratings failure during its Network run overall, and GR didn't think that would change. he was surprised (and then upset) that it did so well in syndication, but he had no rights to any of it -- but to be fair -- paramount did spend a lot of money to get it out into syndication; and if GR had held the rights, that probably would not have happened.

Yes, he did start selling Star trek memorabilia via 'Lincoln Enterprises'; but he was also sued by Paramount over that venture, and a settlement was reached (Star Trek was very popular by that time of course and Paramount probably didn't want the creator to start bad mouthing the studio, etc.)
 
As i said the Disney trilogy had sharp drop offs for each new movie in the trilogy, that is worrying for something that has the Star Wars label on it. Sure the movies were profitable but what do you think a movie series would have made if it had the critical and fan acclaim of the Mandalorian and sparked the same reaction as the original trilogy did?

George Lucas himself wasn't able to accomplish any of those things when he did the prequals. :shrug:
The OT was something new as well as the right movies at the right time. They were something that Hollywood had never seen before. That only happens once in the life of a franchise.

The fact that the movies were profitable only means Kennedy kept her job for now but in terms of business Star Wars is expected to earn huge money, merely adequate won't do in the long run.
The box office has hardly been merely adequate. And the Disney plus shows have been superb.

And yes, after i saw the trilogy i wished for Kennedy to be fired as she signed off on these movies and it is her responsibility as she threatened to run a franchise into the ground that i really care about. She lucked out when she green lighted Mandalorian, which was made by people who really understand how to make a good show and in the case of Dave Filoni live and breathe Star Wars.

I have nothing personal against her. If under her leadership Star Wars returns to making good movies and shows i don't care who's at the helm but she came quite close to ruining it and if i were her boss i'd have been close to pulling the plug.
Thank goodness you aren't in charge. :techman:

The only real mistake she made was making Solo a movie. No one I knew was looking forward to it, but it wasn't a bad movie.
 
Last edited:
George Lucas himself wasn't able to accomplish any of those things when he did the prequals. :shrug:
The OT was something new as well as the right movies at the right time. They were something that Hollywood had never seen before. That only happens once in the life of a franchise.
Indeed. The hype prior to TPM was huge, and the disappointment was detectable even to a teenager like myself. TPM was treated poorly in the reviews, and the anticipation level was never the same. AOTC was widely regarded lesser and ROTS was more of an inevitable march than excitement to see the film. For me, and my little Star Wars group, it was more of a "Glad that's over" than "That was awesome!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sci
Indeed. The hype prior to TPM was huge, and the disappointment was detectable even to a teenager like myself. TPM was treated poorly in the reviews, and the anticipation level was never the same. AOTC was widely regarded lesser and ROTS was more of an inevitable march than excitement to see the film. For me, and my little Star Wars group, it was more of a "Glad that's over" than "That was awesome!"
I couldn't help but notice that the special features on TPM showed the huge hype and excitement of opening night all the way up to that initial scrawl. Then it's fade to black. Funny they didn't bother showing what that audiences reaction was after the movie ended.

I actually like ROTS and it's the only prequal I re-watch. But TPM and AOTC were such chores to sit through.
 
I remember being the last one in the theater as the credit neared the end of TPM. I enjoy listening to John Williams' work. The film had exciting moments, but it felt like it was missing something. Than I heard something. I thought I imaged it. But than I listened closer. Than I heard it again. Vader's theme tucked into Anakin's theme. At the very end of the credits Vader's theme takes over, and the breathing happens. That was the moment I figured this trilogy was the long game. Everything was heading towards Darth Vader in the end.
 
George Lucas himself wasn't able to accomplish any of those things when he did the prequals. :shrug:
The OT was something new as well as the right movies at the right time. They were something that Hollywood had never seen before. That only happens once in the life of a franchise.


The box office has hardly been merely adequate. And the Disney plus shows have been superb.


Thank goodness you aren't in charge. :techman:

The only real mistake she made was making Solo a movie. No one I knew was looking forward to it, but it wasn't a bad movie.

Because the prequels were shit with very few cool scenes in between. Word of mouth gets around.

The OT was never going to win for best picture or best screenplay, they are simple good vs. evil movies but they did it with charm, established cool ideas and made iconic characters and helped launch some big careers for many people involved. This didn't happen with the prequels or the sequels.

Box office was merely adequate as main Star Wars movies are expected to break the billion dollar mark easily - it is one of the few huge safe moneymakers in Hollywood. Slap the Star Wars Logo on any product and it will sell better significantly. So while they made good money even if the sequels were crap and got worse with each subsequent movie they were profitable but it should have been more.

Kennedy is the boss of Star Wars and ultimately it is her responsibility. You need to understand that Hollywood is a cutthroat business, especially at the level where Star Wars is, and anything not meeting internal expectations will raise a red flag. CEO's have been fired or "let go" for exactly such things - while being profitable expectations were higher, which leads to a new CEO. If she had underperformed for longer her job would have been in real jeopardy, i'm sure of that.

The Disney shows, especially Mandalorian, may have saved her job but to me it's telling what happens when you let good producers like Filoni and Favreau at the helm and give them creative control. That is a feather in her cap so to speak but then again she hired JJ Abrams and Johnson who really screwed up the sequels.
 
I actually like ROTS and it's the only prequal I re-watch. But TPM and AOTC were such chores to sit through.

Having recently given the prequels another shot, I think I've finally figured out how to feel about them. There was a lot of great stuff that I really liked, and the core of a great story was there, it just didn't come together into a cohesive whole.

The Disney shows, especially Mandalorian, may have saved her job but to me it's telling what happens when you let good producers like Filoni and Favreau at the helm and give them creative control. That is a feather in her cap so to speak but then again she hired JJ Abrams and Johnson who really screwed up the sequels.

I just couldn't make it all the way through The Mandalorian. I just felt like I was being condescended to the entire time, like they were just going through a checklist of all the things the hardcore fans wanted to see. Then I had the ending of season 2 spoiled for me and I just stopped caring what happened.

The Force Awakens was a fine movie, and The Last Jedi was the best instalment in the series since Empire Strikes Back if only because it did something new and interesting. The sequels only failed when The Rise of Skywalker tried to appease a bunch of angry nerds who never would have been happy no matter what Abrams did.
 
Having recently given the prequels another shot, I think I've finally figured out how to feel about them. There was a lot of great stuff that I really liked, and the core of a great story was there, it just didn't come together into a cohesive whole.



I just couldn't make it all the way through The Mandalorian. I just felt like I was being condescended to the entire time, like they were just going through a checklist of all the things the hardcore fans wanted to see. Then I had the ending of season 2 spoiled for me and I just stopped caring what happened.

The Force Awakens was a fine movie, and The Last Jedi was the best instalment in the series since Empire Strikes Back if only because it did something new and interesting. The sequels only failed when The Rise of Skywalker tried to appease a bunch of angry nerds who never would have been happy no matter what Abrams did.

If you think Force Awakens is a fine movie and Last Jedi the best installment since Empire i don't think we have much to talk about. To each their own but i believe my opinion is more prevalent amongst Star Wars fandom.
 
I just couldn't make it all the way through The Mandalorian. I just felt like I was being condescended to the entire time, like they were just going through a checklist of all the things the hardcore fans wanted to see. Then I had the ending of season 2 spoiled for me and I just stopped caring what happened.
I am still working through it but I'll grant this-I don't care all that much what happens. It does feel very checklisty thus far. Like the PT it has small moments that stand out and work but the rest do not hang together.
The Force Awakens was a fine movie, and The Last Jedi was the best instalment in the series since Empire Strikes Back if only because it did something new and interesting. The sequels only failed when The Rise of Skywalker tried to appease a bunch of angry nerds who never would have been happy no matter what Abrams did.
Agreed. TFA is still one of my favorite SW films to date, and TLJ is a blast. TROS was not the direction I would have taken, and I agree that Abrams was pretty much screwed in terms of expectations. That said, in my opinion TROS works in terms of taking the tension up, but the pay off was a rocky landing, and definitely understand the disappointment. I have a long opinion on modifying the ST now that I have had time to reflect upon it but overall it works well enough.

To each their own but i believe my opinion is more prevalent amongst Star Wars fandom.
I have never been in the mainstream opinion of SW fandom. I see no reason to start now.
 
about. To each their own but i believe my opinion is more prevalent amongst Star Wars fandom

That may be so but I’ve never much cared about the opinions of fandom and I see no reason to start now.

edit: fireproof78 I swear I posted this before I saw your reply
 
Last edited:
If you think Force Awakens is a fine movie and Last Jedi the best installment since Empire i don't think we have much to talk about.

How open minded of you. I'm not a huge fan of TLJ, but I loved TFA.

To each their own but i believe my opinion is more prevalent amongst Star Wars fandom.
Based on........what exactly?
 
Because the prequels were shit with very few cool scenes in between. Word of mouth gets around.

The OT was never going to win for best picture or best screenplay, they are simple good vs. evil movies but they did it with charm, established cool ideas and made iconic characters and helped launch some big careers for many people involved. This didn't happen with the prequels or the sequels.

:lol:

The only acting career that was launched by the OT was Harrison Ford. Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor have had good careers since the PT ended and it's way too early to judge the ST actors.

ANH and TESB were great movies, but ROTJ wasn't all that. The Ewoks were just as silly and stupid as the Gungans and the only thing that saved that movie was the ending. Obi Wans explanation for lying to Luke was complete B.S and Leia all of a sudden being Luke's sister after she gave him a deep one in the previous movie only proves that Lucas was making this up as he went along. In fact, he never STOPPED changing things as he retitled the first movie and kept changing scenes with each home video release. I'm glad the guy finally let it go to Disney or we might have been forced to watch Ja Ja in the 4K releases of ANH or ESB.

Box office was merely adequate as main Star Wars movies are expected to break the billion dollar mark easily - it is one of the few huge safe moneymakers in Hollywood. Slap the Star Wars Logo on any product and it will sell better significantly. So while they made good money even if the sequels were crap and got worse with each subsequent movie they were profitable but it should have been more.

All three of the main movies hit the billion dollar mark as did Rogue one. If that's not good enough box office for you then your standards are way too high.

And no, slapping the Star Wars label does NOT guarantee success as the Clone Wars movie and SOLO proved.

Kennedy is the boss of Star Wars and ultimately it is her responsibility. You need to understand that Hollywood is a cutthroat business,....
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Really? Gee.....I'm in my forties and I never knew that Hollywood is just like every other business in the civilized world. Man, I'm so glad you're around to educate me. /sarcasm off
Anyways.......

....especially at the level where Star Wars is, and anything not meeting internal expectations will raise a red flag. CEO's have been fired or "let go" for exactly such things - while being profitable expectations were higher, which leads to a new CEO. If she had underperformed for longer her job would have been in real jeopardy, i'm sure of that.

She's been President since Disney acquired the franchise in 2012 and they have renewed her contract every time. She's 4 out of 5 on successful Star Wars movies which is far better than many other producers. And for lifetime as a producer, she is third behind Kevin Feige and Spielberg in domestic box office receipts, with over $7.5 billion as of 2020. Also, with streaming becoming another option to the movie theater, box office isn't going to be the end all be all for much longer.

The Disney shows, especially Mandalorian, may have saved her job but to me it's telling what happens when you let good producers like Filoni and Favreau at the helm and give them creative control. That is a feather in her cap so to speak but then again she hired JJ Abrams and Johnson who really screwed up the sequels.
Mandalorian has been a huge success for Disney plus with the Book of Bobba Fett coming out next month and the Obi wan and Ashoka Tan series following in the next year or two. With streaming becoming more and more dominant, this is a wise move.

JJ Abrams did an excellent job with TFA and did the best he could with ROS after Johnson had flushed what he set up down the toilet. Johnson was a mistake for that trilogy, but with a trilogy of his own who knows?


Like it or not, Kennedy's not going anywhere.
 
Last edited:
Why is that rude? Quality in entertainment, i.e. movies, shows, theater etc. is subjective of course but the majority of Star Wars fans do not like the Disney trilogy and it also shows objectively at the box office, where each movie of the trilogy made less money at the box office than the previous one and the general consensus amongst critics and fans is not that favorable ( still profitable but not when you consider it has the Star Wars label on it).

The OT also had diminishing returns at the box office. TESB($549,001,242) made less than ANH($775,398,007) and ROTJ($475,106,177) made less than TESB. Surprisingly this trend was different for the PT. AOTC($656,695,615) made less than TPM($1,027,044,677) but ROTS($848,998,877) made more than AOTC.
 
If you think Force Awakens is a fine movie and Last Jedi the best installment since Empire i don't think we have much to talk about.

QFT.

The ST--especially its misuse of the Finn character--make the ST films unwatchable, as the producers'/writers' ill-minded agenda could not be more apparent. I doubt many were sad to see the ST end.

The only way the ST would have worked? Following this prescription--

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
For the record, per Box Office Mojo, the post-Disney acquisition Star Wars films fared as follows:

  • The Force Awakens (2015)
    • Budget: $245 million
    • Domestic Gross: $936.66 million
    • International Gross: $1.13 billion
    • Total Worldwide Gross: $2.068 billion
    • Profit: $1.823 billion ($1,823,223,624)
  • Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)
    • Budget: $200 million
    • Domestic Gross: $532.177 million
    • International Gross: $523.88 million
    • Total Worldwide Gross: $1.056 billion
    • Profit: $856.06 million 856,057,273
  • The Last Jedi (2017)
    • Budget: $317 million
    • Domestic Gross: $620.18 million
    • International Gross: $712.36 million
    • Total Worldwide Gross: $1.332 billion
    • Profit: $1.02 billion 1,015,539,889
  • Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)
    • Budget: $275 million
    • Domestic Gross: $213.77 million
    • International Gross: $179.16 million
    • Total Worldwide Gross: $392.92 million
    • Profit: $117.92 million 117,924,807
  • The Rise of Skywalker (2019)
    • Budget: $275 million
    • Domestic Gross: $515.2 million
    • International Gross: $558.94 million
    • Total Worldwide Gross: $1.074 billion
    • Profit: $799.15 million 799,144248
  • Series Aggregate
    • Worldwide Gross: ~$5.92 billion ($5,923,889,841 to be exact)
    • Total Profit: ~$4.61 billion ($4,611,889,841 to be exact)
Oh, and she greenlit The Mandalorian, which almost single-handedly kept Disney+ going when it was first released.

I gotta say, if Disney's response to someone who earns them $4.61 billion in profit and kept their streaming service from dying upon release is to fire her because some assholes on the Internet can't get over Luke Skywalker not being Rambo with lightsabers, then they would be a pretty abusive and self-destructive employer.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top