MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

[Shaka Zulu]

X-Men movies being seen as underwhelming Wolverine-solo films

Well, Wolverine really DID get focused on too much in the X-men movies. Those really suffered a bit because of that. Calling them "Wolverine and the X-men" movies would be accurate.

What they should have done is just make some movies focused on the original core X-Men first (Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby Warren Professor Xavier) and just do that; Wolverine could come later. But the problem was (and is) that most of the fanboys expect Wolverine all of the time, so Fox and Marvel catered to them.

 

[theenglish]

X-Men movies being seen as underwhelming Wolverine-solo films

Well, Wolverine really DID get focused on too much in the X-men movies. Those really suffered a bit because of that. Calling them "Wolverine and the X-men" movies would be accurate.

What they should have done is just make some movies focused on the original core X-Men first (Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby Warren Professor Xavier) and just do that; Wolverine could come later. But the problem was (and is) that most of the fanboys expect Wolverine all of the time, so Fox and Marvel catered to them.

To be fair, Marvel comics does the same, and has done so since the nineties. In how many comics does Wolverine make an appearance each month?

 

[Dream]

To be fair, Marvel comics does the same, and has done so since the nineties. In how many comics does Wolverine make an appearance each month?

That's one of the reasons I've very grateful Marvel Studios isn't allowed to use Wolverine and Spiderman in their movies. It forced them develop to their less popular superheroes!

 

[The Old Mixer]

What they should have done is just make some movies focused on the original core X-Men first (Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby Warren Professor Xavier) and just do that; Wolverine could come later.

Wolverine couldn't come later if no sequels were made. Be realistic.

 

[Skywalker]

There was no way they were going to do an X-Men movie without Wolverine in it. Not the first time out. He's the most popular and the most recognizable character in that universe. They were able to get away with it in First Class (cameo notwithstanding) because the franchise had been established by then.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Singer just isn't good with team movies.

Ahem - there's this little movie called The Usual Suspects that you may have heard of?

 

[Dream]

Singer just isn't good with team movies.

Ahem - there's this little movie called The Usual Suspects that you may have heard of?

No comment.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^You presumably don't think it's a good ensemble movie?

 

[Dream]

^You presumably don't think it's a good ensemble movie?

I have never seen the movie.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^It's a superb twisty crime thriller. If you've any interest in that genre, give it a go.

 

[Greg Cox]

What they should have done is just make some movies focused on the original core X-Men first (Scott, Jean, Hank, Bobby Warren Professor Xavier) and just do that; Wolverine could come later.

Wolverine couldn't come later if no sequels were made. Be realistic.

Exactly. It's worth remembering that the original X-Men comic with the core team sold poorly (and was actually cancelled). The X-Men didn't catch on until they were revived in the eighties with Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.

More importantly, there's absolutely no reason why the movies should have to stick to the original timeline of the comics--especially if it means you don't get to the good stuff until several movies in!

I mean, there's a reason that SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE featured Lex Luthor, kryptonite, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, and the Phantom Zone criminals--even though all of those elements were introduced years after the first SUPERMAN comics debuted.

You want to cherrypick the good stuff people expect to see, not cling slavishly to the timeline of the original comics.

 

[The Lensman]

The X-Men didn't catch on until they were revived in the eighties with Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.

The All New, All Different X-Men premiered in the 70's, not the 80's.

Just sayin...

 

[Greg Cox]

The X-Men didn't catch on until they were revived in the eighties with Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.

The All New, All Different X-Men premiered in the 70's, not the 80's.

Just sayin...

You know, I knew I should have looked that up . . .

And speaking of "Singer can't do teams," one of things I really admire about X2 is the way the film manages to handle multiple characters and subplots. A lot of superhero movies fall apart the minute they tackle more than one villain, but X2 does a nice job of weaving a whole mob of mutants into the story in an efficient and coherent manner. Heck,even Pyro gets a story arc. And most of the characters get a nice little moment or grace note of their own.

Sure, inevitably, some characters get slighted (sorry, Cyke), and, of course, Wolverine is going to get more screen time than Iceman or whomever, but overall it's an impressive job of traffic directing!

 

[Set Harth]

^You presumably don't think it's a good ensemble movie?

I have never seen the movie.

Hopefully no one has spoiled the plot twist for you.

 

[JD]

The end of TUS is one of my all time favorite movie endings. I really need to rewatch it some time, I haven't seen it in years.

 

[TheSeeker]

^You presumably don't think it's a good ensemble movie?

I have never seen the movie.

Hopefully no one has spoiled the plot twist for you.

No one spoiled it for me but when I finally did watch it it seemed kind of obvious.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

What is it with Superman putting his hands around people's necks?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Well, Evil Superman is mean.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I was never that fond of the junkyard battle...too small-scale. The one person who ought to know that a stack of tires won't hold Superman...is Superman.

 

[Dream]

I was never that fond of the junkyard battle...too small-scale. The one person who ought to know that a stack of tires won't hold Superman...is Superman.

The junkyard battle is great and had a ton of meaning. It represented what was going on in Superman's head after being affected by the artificial Kryptonite. Everything after the two of them separate to the very end was actually taking place inside his head, both personalities were fighting to see who would be the one in control.

Evil Superman was always the stronger fighter in the battle, but Clark was always in it and the point was that he was getting stronger the longer it went on. Yeah, the tire thing was a little lame but it was Clark finally trying to fight back. Clark always had his powers, it was the only reason he wasn't dead after every punch, but it took time for him to eventually unleash it. Also awesome acting from Reeve who was playing both Evil Superman and Clark!

If there were more scenes like the junkyard battle, than Superman III could have been much better.

The battles in Superman II were very good, but they were just physical battles, and they were brought down a bit by the flying effects.