MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Agent Richard07, Jun 11, 2013.

?

Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    10.6%
  2. A

    20.9%
  3. A-

    18.3%
  4. B+

    9.9%
  5. B

    11.4%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    4.9%
  8. C

    4.9%
  9. C-

    3.4%
  10. D+

    3.4%
  11. D

    3.8%
  12. D-

    2.7%
  13. F

    1.5%
  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wasp didn't die in SI. Even if she had, it was the skrull Pym who injected her. Thor just tried to contain her from what I remember. Goliath was killed by Ragnarok/clone Thor, and honestly the villains in Infinity are so boring I forgot he killed one, although another one with the same name/look would probably have popped up if given the opportunity.
     
  2. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I will certainly agree that Routh's Superman did far too much brooding in SR, but I didn't feel that with Cavill's Superman to nearly the same degree.

    He might have seemed somewhat uncertain and curious as he traveled the world looking for answers, but that's different from how utterly sad and dejected Routh often appeared to be throughout his movie.

    All I can think is people are projecting the somewhat gloomy tone of MOS onto Cavill's performance as well.
     
  3. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer The Mod You've Known for All These Years Moderator

    Being Superman should be a weighty responsibility...I had no problem with that aspect of the film.
     
  4. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    Especially in this century when a there are less medi gatekeepers and a private video can ruin your life.
     
  5. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Rewatching all the comic book films this week. Even GL which I totally forgot they made. I can't help but notice all the killing that is glossed over in the Marvel films. Looking just at the Avengers team, seriously ask yourself. WHAT IS IRON MAN'S FRAKKING BODY COUNT?

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH-r4HXHcCk[/yt]

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jHc4lUaCp4[/yt]
    If not for the Super Solider Serum this would've surely killed Blonsky. But Hulk didn't know that and kicked him into a tree anyway.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o2ACEr9NmQ[/yt]

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSbyknf4vJ4[/yt]

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQtgHxfQJc[/yt]

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xemvuM-uav0[/yt]
    That nuke had to rank up at least in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.

    Iron Man 3 had those 3 dozen or so Extremis soldiers bite the dust. Thor TDW had it share of killing but most done not by Thor.
     
  6. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    You noticed, too, huh?

    We do seem to be giving the Marvel movies a pass on this, myself definitely included.
     
  7. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Can we at least all agree that Superman would never choose to ruin quiet, character-defining scenes like the ones between Clark and Jonathan with a deliberately hyper-shaky camera?
     
  8. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    So you are telling me that Zod wasn't as big a deal as Doomsday? I'd say the level of destruction Zod was capable of was totally on par with Doomsday, and Zod was just as big a threat.

    Also, this is the only time we've seen this version of Superman kill. You're willing to allow "a few lapses" in the comics but not in the movies?

    October, 1988. Guess who it was who killed billions? I'll give you a hint. The same guy who was going to kill billions in MoS.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    ^ TheSeeker go to page 91 of this thread. I posted that and other images of Superman #22.

    The member JD posted this on page 92. Superman #22 and the other issues of The 1988 Supergirl Saga are also for sale.

     
  10. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    You'll need to give me a post number because the way I'm viewing the thread it is only at page 37. Also, I mentioned the fact that Superman has killed in the past way back in June in this post from this very thread.

    I'm not really sure what you are getting at.
     
  11. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In the comics, the few times he killed was really a last resort. Even with all the other heroes in the DCU, at that point Doomsday wouldn't have been stopped short of death, since he wasn't even slightly rational. Its whole purpose was the killing of every living thing on Earth, even Joker isn't that dangerously insane (usually, and either way he's usually easier to stop).

    In MoS, he really doesn't put too much thought into killing Zod. He may have thought he had no choice, but there were things he could of done. I think about it like this. The comic book Superman could have defeated Zod in that situation without killing him. Saying MoS Clark wasn't experienced is a cop out. He just isn't very good at what he does, and he didn't seem to even consider not killing him. If Superman gave in and killed every villain that was threatening people just because he was too stupid to, you know, fly upwards or move the guy's head or something, every one of his villains would be dead. In MoS, killing Zod was not his only alternative. He had other choices. He was either too stupid to think of them or decided not to use them.

    As for Marvel deaths, again its a different situation, and usually life threatening. Yes, Tony Stark killed some of his kidnappers. It was literally life or death. The Hulk is a different situation too, although to be fair Blonsky almost dying is basically suicide by Hulk at that point. Its like blaming a train for killing someone because a person was stupid enough to charge the train head on. I've already talked about Thor being a warrior first, and never claiming that he doesn't kill, although he doesn't usually kill mortal villains. Cap is a soldier, and while he doesn't usually kill supervillains he's still not someone who has been about never killing. In IM3, the extremis deaths were mostly the fault of the people in question. They were crazy people that Tony couldn't stop normally.

    I've never tried to say that some deaths in comics/movies don't make sense or aren't justified. Its just that in Man of Steel, Superman killing Zod was wrong. Even taking away the fact that Superman almost never kills, in that situation it was not his only alternative, and it wasn't something Superman would do.
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I couldn't care less if he killed in past comics. Or that other superheroes have killed. I don't like it for that particular superhero. Especially when he kills already in his origin story.
     
  13. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    ^Which could be the defining moment that leads to his no killing decision.
    I mean he grew up on a farm. Snapping chicken necks, putting down animals that were wounded or mad would have been part of his normal upbringing. To see his remorse and horror at the killing of another being and then resolving for it not to happen again is a much stronger character development than just saying, oh he doesnt kill.
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well that's what I liked about Superman. He doesn't have to have a bad past in order to be good. I know a lot of people who grew up in stable families, etc... and they are good people.

    I'm getting tired of the badly hurt superhero who has issues with his past. Superman is that one superhero who simply is good and stable.
     
  15. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, thats a good way to say it. Superman is a good guy because he's just a good guy, he didn't have to go through/do bad things in order to become who he is.
     
  16. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Gray Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    So, he turns Zod's head, and Zod doesn't kill those couple of people... Then what? How could Zod be stopped? He would've kept going and coming back and killing more and more people, he was not willing to be defeated and left alive.

    If he was subdued, and he was able to be taken into custody, how do you hold him? If Superman could escape any Human Tech prison, Zod could too. It was only a temporary disability that incapacitated him, that in time Zod would've learned to conquer, just like Clark did.

    So, yea, maybe he could've saved those couple of people at that moment in time, but, then more would've been killed immediately afterwards
     
  17. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    Well he could have reached his fingers around and drove them into Zods eye sockets blinding him.That would have made people happy.
     
  18. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    Saying he could have flown straight up with him wouldn't really have worked either. By this point Zod could fly. It would have been a simple matter for Zod to counteract Superman's efforts to lift him into the sky.
     
  19. The Lensman

    The Lensman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Except Zod had already mass murdered THOUSANDS and specifically said he was going to murder EVERY SINGLE HUMAN on the planet. He told Superman that while in his dream state and he told him later. Which part of this are you struggling with? Because I literally have two under ten nephews who get this better than you do. Who understand that Superman doesn't normally kill but sometimes he's going to have to, especially when he's faced with an opponent with the exact same powers who loses his shit because every hope he had of resurrecting his civilization just died and then specifically says "I'm going to kill you, then I'm going to kill every single human on this planet."

    Yeah, cuz it was awesome how he killed Zod in Smallville since he didn't think much about killing Zod. But that's not what happened. He plead with Zod not to terraform the Earth and kill everyone on it. Zod ignored him and went to Smallville where they engaged in fisticuffs.

    Zod proceeded to try and terraform the planet and mass murdered THOUSANDS of people. After his machine and the matrix were destroyed, Zod and Kal engaged in more fisticuffs, like thirty fucking minutes worth.

    Zod told Kal that he was going to murder the rest of the planet. He told Kal that he was not going to stop and that Kal would have to kill him. Then Kal, instead of just snapping Zod's neck pleads with Zod not to kill the family.

    All of these things were on screen, so how is it that you're struggling so much to understand any of this?

    If he didn't think much of killing, then he would've killed Zod in Smallville, then spent the rest of the movie using his advantage of having grown up on our world to remove the helmets of the Kryptonians or expose them to our atmosphere, and then kill them.

    But he didn't do that.

    Realizing that no earthly weapons could hurt or kill the Kryptonians, and no earthy construction could hold them, he worked, in cooperation with the United States military to IMPRISON them, non-lethally, in the Phantom Zone. The first plan was non-lethal and it had a 99% success rate. But it was a one shot only deal and Zod escaped it.


    Name them or shut up.

    At this point you're just a blithering kid who spent a lot of time getting emotionally invested in wanting to hate a movie, look authoritative on something and made a lot of noise about it on the internet. You've ridiculously made allowances for times when he's killed and lived in a world with hundreds of heroes to help and more fantastic tech at his disposal. In the case of Doomsday, it's clear you differentiate the two situations because one looks like a scary, hulking "monster" and one looks like a regular person.

    This Superman had neither of those options listed to him available at the time. But you're too invested and entrenched in holding a specific opinion that you made a lot of noise about in front of everyone, and because you can't back down now, you point to inane examples where Superman had more options open to him, yet still killed and say "he had no choice" or "the stakes were higher" even when the "stakes" were exactly the same. You look more and more ridiculous, if that's even possible, every time you reply.

    But I need a good fucking laugh, so give the specifics on what these "other options" were. Go ahead. Keep in mind that Zod, having just murdered THOUSANDS of American citizens is subject to American law, and since we executed Bin Laden for less death and destruction, Zod would be found guilty and sentenced to death. And since nothing human made affected Zod, Superman would have to carry out the execution. He doesn't get to escape our laws or punishments.

    So let's hear these options that don't result in Superman killing him. I mean, I guess Superman could spend the rest of his days struggling to keep him in a bear hold or something.
     
  20. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    At that very early point in Supermans existance, what was it day two, there really were no options. MOS Superman is barely aware of what he can do power wise. Perhaps had the encounter occured five years later I could see him doing other things. This just starting Superman, no option.