Malachi Throne in The Cage -- pitched up from the beginning?

[Christopher]

There's just this sort of feeling that this the past is a different universe. The continuity can be startling.

Well, the past being discussed here (the original commercials in TOS) is the approximate period when I was born, so saying that makes me feel like a relic.

And I was always pretty aware of the past before my time, but maybe that's an artifact of being born to parents who were somewhat older than is typical (35). Or maybe it's just that it was easier back then to discover old TV shows and movies since they were constantly rerunning in syndication on TV. It seems to me that in these days of streaming and home video, you pretty much don't see any shows or movies you don't make a conscious effort to seek out, so there are fewer opportunities to expand your awareness of the past.

 

[Neopeius]

Well, the past being discussed here (the original commercials in TOS) is the approximate period when I was born, so saying that makes me feel like a relic.

I'm sure I'll feel the same when I'm born in nine years...

And I was always pretty aware of the past before my time, but maybe that's an artifact of being born to parents who were somewhat older than is typical (35). Or maybe it's just that it was easier back then to discover old TV shows and movies since they were constantly rerunning in syndication on TV. It seems to me that in these days of streaming and home video, you pretty much don't see any shows or movies you don't make a conscious effort to seek out, so there are fewer opportunities to expand your awareness of the past.

I have a bit of that leapfrogging since my eldest brother is 11 years older than me, and we were close growing up. I'm looking forward to the 70s as a result.

You are right that the magpie experience streaming offers means most people miss out on stuff, or only get the most meme-worthy stuff. If you do a search for gifs on Discord or Twitter, it's amazing what's there..and what isn't.

Add to that that there's simply more content being made today (Sturgeon's Law still applies of course) and old stuff gets lost. What has been amazing for us is how much decent to great content there is here in the mid-60s. Lorelei and I struggle to watch all the TV we want to see, even with some control of the airwaves, and we often have to make hard choices.

Of course, that's how it was back then, too.

Hey -- question for an old person like you. When did you first get color tv?

 

[Christopher]

Hey -- question for an old person like you. When did you first get color tv?

Much later than most people. As a kid in the '70s, I only got to see TV in color when I visited a neighbor, a doctor's office, a motel or hotel, etc. I think I was 13 when my father finally bought our first (used) color TV, so around 1981-2.

I remember the first time I saw "The Immunity Syndrome" in color on a motel TV. I was astonished by how vivid and gorgeous it was.

 

[T'Bonz]

We got ours in 1969. For years after, I refused to watch any shows or movies in black-and-white.

 

[Christopher]

We got ours in 1969. For years after, I refused to watch any shows or movies in black-and-white.

I can understand preferring to see something in color if it was made in color. That way you're getting the full experience that's available. But I've never understood refusing to see something that was made in black-and-white to begin with.

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

When my parents divorced in 1973 and my mom and I moved out, one of the first things she did was to buy a color TV (my father thought color TV was a waste of money). A couple of years later, he did buy a color TV--an extremely expensive Zenith console with a primitive remote control (different from today's remotes). He hoped it would make me visit him more often. As for Trek, I don't believe I ever saw it in black-and-white. I guess it would have looked pretty weird in B&W.

 

[Christopher]

As for Trek, I don't believe I ever saw it in black-and-white. I guess it would have looked pretty weird in B&W.

While the makers of TOS certainly took full advantage of color, they also took care to make sure it would look good in black and white too, since color TV was still fairly new at the time. Early plans to give Spock "devilish" red skin were ditched when it turned out to look like blackface in monochrome. And the uniform colors were chosen to be recognizably different shades in black and white. Come to think of it, it's also probably why the characters so often made a point of referencing Spock's green blood in dialogue, for the benefit of viewers who couldn't just see its color.

 

[Neopeius]

While the makers of TOS certainly took full advantage of color, they also took care to make sure it would look good in black and white too, since color TV was still fairly new at the time. Early plans to give Spock "devilish" red skin were ditched when it turned out to look like blackface in monochrome. And the uniform colors were chosen to be recognizably different shades in black and white. Come to think of it, it's also probably why the characters so often made a point of referencing Spock's green blood in dialogue, for the benefit of viewers who couldn't just see its color.

I first saw Trek in color, but TAS in black and white!

 

[mb22]

Black and white. When I saw the 1976 calendar and the (unfortunately flipped) back cover of The Making of Star Trek , I was impressed with all the colors.

 

[Neopeius]

Black and white. When I saw the 1976 calendar and the (unfortunately flipped) back cover of The Making of Star Trek , I was impressed with all the colors.

Finding The Making of Star Trek in the local library, around the mid 80s, was like discovering the Bible. Just amazing.

This is why I wish libraries still had books...

 

[Maurice]

Early plans to give Spock "devilish" red skin were ditched when it turned out to look like blackface in monochrome.

I've seen a frame of one of the "red skin" test shots in color and when you remove the chroma Nimoy looks as he did when "painted down" brown to play a native American. Not sure if they did any heavier/darker variations.

 

[T'Bonz]

I can understand preferring to see something in color if it was made in color. That way you're getting the full experience that's available. But I've never understood refusing to see something that was made in black-and-white to begin with.

Because I was 10 and preferred color. Once I grew up, I revisited black and white stuff and was fine with it.

 

[Damian]

We got ours in 1969. For years after, I refused to watch any shows or movies in black-and-white.

I can understand preferring to see something in color if it was made in color. That way you're getting the full experience that's available. But I've never understood refusing to see something that was made in black-and-white to begin with.

I have to admit I've always found a certain charm in black and white. I don't know why. I remember my middle school history teacher used to like to show filmstrips about history, and sometimes dramatizations of historical events (and yes, these were your old fashioned reel to reel filmstrips ). There was always something I liked when he would show a film made in B&W.

Now....Star Trek is best experienced in color, no doubt. While Christopher makes a good point that they made it in such a way as to look good in B&W, it definitely took advantage of color as well. But when I got the very first VHS release of "The Cage" that was a mix of B&W and color footage, I actually found it a bit annoying so I got to the point I'd turn off the color of my TV to watch it all in B&W (as an aside, I always wished they released a version with the unaltered voice of Throne for the Keeper, but I suppose the original soundtrack of his voice might be lost). Watching "The Cage" in B&W did give it a more old school sci-fi feel. "The Cage" always had a different 'feel' to it to begin with, so B&W made it even more so.

And sometimes B&W was the intention. Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho for instance, was made in B&W on purpose. Hitchcock had been making color films for years by then but he felt the B&W would be more effective for a film like Psycho (it probably helped the decision making that Paramount wanted nothing to do with the film and gave him a bare bones budget to do it--though I imagine they were happy with the end result, at least until Universal got the rights ). Probably one of the reasons no one ever even hinted at colorizing it, I mean, could you imagine Psycho in color? As a big horror/slasher film fan it takes a lot to spook me these days, but the B&W does make it just a bit more unsettling, which is what Hitchcock was going for.

On the other hand I saw a colorized version of Night of the Living Dead and I realized it was scarier and more disturbing in B&W. I think Romero would have definitely made that movie in color if he had the budget, but it actually works better in B&W.

Ok, well, I rambled on enough. Part of it for me was probably that growing up we usually had color TV's. Sometimes I'd have to watch a B&W TV but there was always a color TV somewhere in the house so that probably plays into how I see movies and TV's. If I didn't have a choice and only had a B&W TV then I might feel differently.

 

[Damian]

Finding The Making of Star Trek in the local library, around the mid 80s, was like discovering the Bible. Just amazing.

This is why I wish libraries still had books...

I found that book at a flea market or maybe a used book seller and decided to pick it up. I was excited to learn I had managed to get a first printing of the first edition of that book, that was actually in really good shape (it almost looked like new). I also snagged a first printing copy of Mission to Horatius, the first original Star Trek novel (which was in pretty good condition as well). Both were just lucky finds.

That book was incredibly informative. I was always impressed at how much Roddenberry in his team tried to incorporate real science as much as possible and the book really goes into depth at how important that was to them. It was also interesting to read about the things they considered. For instance, they considered having no sound in space, since that's how it really is, but in that case they decided, being a TV show, that they would have to take some artistic license there for dramatic effect. So even things that weren't done factually true, they had considered.

If you've never read it, I'd also recommend The Worlds of Star Trek by David Gerrold. He focused more on the story elements, characters and aliens in Star Trek. That was also very informative. It's interesting to read how originally the Klingons were conceived as having no honor code (instead it was the Romulans). That was obviously changed over the years.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I have to admit I've always found a certain charm in black and white. I don't know why. I remember my middle school history teacher used to like to show filmstrips about history, and sometimes dramatizations of historical events (and yes, these were your old fashioned reel to reel filmstrips ). There was always something I liked when he would show a film made in B&W.

Now....Star Trek is best experienced in color, no doubt. While Christopher makes a good point that they made it in such a way as to look good in B&W, it definitely took advantage of color as well. But when I got the very first VHS release of "The Cage" that was a mix of B&W and color footage, I actually found it a bit annoying so I got to the point I'd turn off the color of my TV to watch it all in B&W (as an aside, I always wished they released a version with the unaltered voice of Throne for the Keeper, but I suppose the original soundtrack of his voice might be lost). Watching "The Cage" in B&W did give it a more old school sci-fi feel. "The Cage" always had a different 'feel' to it to begin with, so B&W made it even more so.

And sometimes B&W was the intention. Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho for instance, was made in B&W on purpose. Hitchcock had been making color films for years by then but he felt the B&W would be more effective for a film like Psycho (it probably helped the decision making that Paramount wanted nothing to do with the film and gave him a bare bones budget to do it--though I imagine they were happy with the end result, at least until Universal got the rights ). Probably one of the reasons no one ever even hinted at colorizing it, I mean, could you imagine Psycho in color? As a big horror/slasher film fan it takes a lot to spook me these days, but the B&W does make it just a bit more unsettling, which is what Hitchcock was going for.

On the other hand I saw a colorized version of Night of the Living Dead and I realized it was scarier and more disturbing in B&W. I think Romero would have definitely made that movie in color if he had the budget, but it actually works better in B&W.

Ok, well, I rambled on enough. Part of it for me was probably that growing up we usually had color TV's. Sometimes I'd have to watch a B&W TV but there was always a color TV somewhere in the house so that probably plays into how I see movies and TV's. If I didn't have a choice and only had a B&W TV then I might feel differently.

I agree that b&w adds something to films meant to be spooky. But not by accident. I've seen a forgettable, super-cheap 1950s vampire movie filmed in b&w. Visually it was boring and bland as hell. It's only when the production designer and cinematographer add some artistry that b&w gets spooky, or dramatic, or anything else.

I've noticed that a good b&w production makes you feel like you're not missing anything. The sets are designed and decorated in just such a way, and probably painted 11 shades of brown and tan— and that trick creates a world where colors seem unimportant, like they would convey no information or pleasure. So your eye focuses on the essential form of everything and forgets that extra layer called color.

And when that film is colorized, those same sets go from vivid to boring, because the computer colorist had so little on screen that was meant to be colorful.

Lost in Space presents a small case study of this b&w to color problem, because the Jupiter 2 interiors were crafted in shades of tan for the first season, and they didn't entirely re-do them for years 2 and 3. And on color film, they didn't look as good.

 

[Christopher]

But when I got the very first VHS release of "The Cage" that was a mix of B&W and color footage, I actually found it a bit annoying so I got to the point I'd turn off the color of my TV to watch it all in B&W (as an aside, I always wished they released a version with the unaltered voice of Throne for the Keeper, but I suppose the original soundtrack of his voice might be lost).

The original audio does survive on the black & white print, and the Keeper's unaltered voice can be heard in the restored portions of "The Cage." But that audio is of lower quality than the audio from "The Menagerie," so when they reconstructed "The Cage," they favored the "Menagerie" soundtrack where available.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Dark Shadows definitely lost some of its atmosphere when it went to color.

 

[Ssosmcin]

As did The Fugitive. It completely lost it noir atmosphere. The Man from UNCLE and 12 O'Clock High lost something when they went to color. Some shows handle the change to color well, however. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea sprang to life in its second year. I Dream of Jeannie was also more fun when it broke out of monochrome.

Some shows are exactly the same. I was surprised at just how well The Wild Wild West worked in both b&w and color.

 

[Christopher]

Lost in Space was another show that was better in black & white. That's largely because it embraced camp along with color, in order to compete with Batman; the same happened with The Man from UNCLE, for the same reason. But LiS's alien setting and stories were more effective in B&W, with a better atmosphere.

I'd say Gilligan's Island was probably better off in color, showing off the lush environment and the increasingly fanciful plots. But I'm glad The Addams Family was B&W throughout.

 

[Neopeius]

As did The Fugitive. It completely lost it noir atmosphere. The Man from UNCLE and 12 O'Clock High lost something when they went to color. Some shows handle the change to color well, however. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea sprang to life in its second year. I Dream of Jeannie was also more fun when it broke out of monochrome.

Some shows are exactly the same. I was surprised at just how well The Wild Wild West worked in both b&w and color.

We've just gone to full color. It's funny because my downstairs TV is a black and white. I turned on COMBAT! the other day, and it was just like I remembered it. 12 O'Clock High in color was... weird. But I gave up on the show after Lansing left, anyway. And COMBAT! became farce after the second season -- how long does it take to get to Germany anyway?