Making Sense of DS9: Terrorism

[Distorted Humor]

your points are somewhat accurate, but I would just point out that the refugee issue in that particular conflict is just as much political as anything else. The idea that there are still "refugees" from a conflict either 63 years ago(1948 war) or 44 years ago (1967 war), or even second or third-generation refugees is a fairly unique concept in international affairs.

Indeed, but even in the first Bajor episode (TNG Ensign Ro) it is metioned that no one wants to integrate the Bajorians...

As for time of refugee camps, it exists also since it one of the longest post 1945 occupations. The Saharawi people and some family from the partition of India also have multi-generational refugee camps. and some of the african camps are getting to be multi-generational. Normally the political issue is solved before it gets to the point of say, the 1967 camps.

 

[sonak]

your points are somewhat accurate, but I would just point out that the refugee issue in that particular conflict is just as much political as anything else. The idea that there are still "refugees" from a conflict either 63 years ago(1948 war) or 44 years ago (1967 war), or even second or third-generation refugees is a fairly unique concept in international affairs.

Indeed, but even in the first Bajor episode (TNG Ensign Ro) it is metioned that no one wants to integrate the Bajorians...

As for time of refugee camps, it exists also since it one of the longest post 1945 occupations. The Saharawi people and some family from the partition of India also have multi-generational refugee camps. and some of the african camps are getting to be multi-generational. Normally the political issue is solved before it gets to the point of say, the 1967 camps.

you mention a long-term occupation, but what was stopping them from integrating refugees into the West Bank, which Jordan had de facto if not de jure sovereignty over from '49 to '67, or the West Bank or Gaza from the Oslo Accords era ?

if you mean Israel itself as a long-term occupation, well it's not exactly feasible that they're going to integrate the refugees there.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Indeed, but even in the first Bajor episode (TNG Ensign Ro) it is metioned that no one wants to integrate the Bajorians...

As for time of refugee camps, it exists also since it one of the longest post 1945 occupations. The Saharawi people and some family from the partition of India also have multi-generational refugee camps. and some of the african camps are getting to be multi-generational. Normally the political issue is solved before it gets to the point of say, the 1967 camps.

you mention a long-term occupation, but what was stopping them from integrating refugees into the West Bank, which Jordan had de facto if not de jure sovereignty over from '49 to '67, or the West Bank or Gaza from the Oslo Accords era ?

if you mean Israel itself as a long-term occupation, well it's not exactly feasible that they're going to integrate the refugees there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

basicly, it has toe be a negotiated settlement where the right of return is waived, and they are not going to do that without a viable (As in mostly contiguous that is not landlocked inside of Israel) state with a slice of a contested city as a capital.

 

[sonak]

you mention a long-term occupation, but what was stopping them from integrating refugees into the West Bank, which Jordan had de facto if not de jure sovereignty over from '49 to '67, or the West Bank or Gaza from the Oslo Accords era ?

if you mean Israel itself as a long-term occupation, well it's not exactly feasible that they're going to integrate the refugees there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

basicly, it has toe be a negotiated settlement where the right of return is waived, and they are not going to do that without a viable (As in mostly contiguous that is not landlocked inside of Israel) state with a slice of a contested city as a capital.

don't get me wrong. I'm well aware of the right of return issue in that conflict, but it seems like we're both in agreement on the matter of its practicality.

As to your vision of what the peace settlement would look like, I mostly agree with that, too. Sadly though, being able to describe the nature of a peace settlement and actually getting there are two separate things.

 

[Distorted Humor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

basicly, it has toe be a negotiated settlement where the right of return is waived, and they are not going to do that without a viable (As in mostly contiguous that is not landlocked inside of Israel) state with a slice of a contested city as a capital.

don't get me wrong. I'm well aware of the right of return issue in that conflict, but it seems like we're both in agreement on the matter of its practicality.

As to your vision of what the peace settlement would look like, I mostly agree with that, too. Sadly though, being able to describe the nature of a peace settlement and actually getting there are two separate things.

Indeed, I agree with you there, and that is the nature, and frustration, of diplomacy.

 

[Tuvoks_partner]

No, the civilians would not be a legitimate target. The military still would be. Make no mistake, it would be an awful situation. But other tactics would have to be used, ones that did not involve killing those civilians. (Turning them towards your cause, however...that could be more promising.)

But it was well established that the Cardassians were arrogant people. Ghemors daughter was "lost" on Bajor when she went on a mission to try and stop the Terrorism. I'm not so sure the Cardassian population on Bajor would have changed and turned against the military on behalf of the Bajorans

 

[Tuvoks_partner]

I can't remember the exact quote from the exact episode, but in Trek books like the Chronology it always says that the planet was "formally annexed", which means a formal agreement between governments and not outright military subjugation.

And yes, I do know it was likely done at gunpoint but if there's no proof of the matter and no one every spoke up on that then there really isn't anything that can be said on the matter.

But in the episode (yes, I'm to lazy to look it up, if someone can help thanks) where Dukot had lost his mind, and he had rescued Sisko after the Federation ship that was taking Dukot to stand trial for war crimes, Dukot said the planet was not ready for full scale colinization, and Central command wanted the situation resolved.

 

[Anwar]

It's Dukat, we can't really take anything he says at face value.