Luke Skywalker's Character Problem in Star Wars The Last Jedi

[BillJ]

Imagine my surprise when I use to frequent the website "Movie Mistakes" and discovered that "Star Wars" was easily the top film with the most mistakes. And I thought it was perfect...

It was perfect, when I was six. I still enjoy it now, but realize it is a flawed film.

 

[fireproof78]

It was perfect, when I was six. I still enjoy it now, but realize it is a flawed film.

All films are flawed. The question for me is "Do I enjoy this?"

If the answer is yes then I move on. If the answer is no then I move on. Life is way too short to figure out why I didn't like something in a movie.

 

[BillJ]

If the answer is yes then I move on. If the answer is no then I move on. Life is way too short to figure out why I didn't like something in a movie.

Depends on the TV series/movie for me. I put far more energy into Trek than I do most entertainment.

 

[fireproof78]

Depends on the TV series/movie for me. I put far more energy into Trek than I do most entertainment.

I think for me it's simply a matter of if I am going to stick around for an installment in a franchise. If I don't like a particular part (movie, show, series, whatever) then I'll not keep going. Like, I cannot stand ROTS in the Star Wars franchise. So, I don't watch it. But, I don't give up on Star Wars as the result.

 

[BillJ]

I think for me it's simply a matter of if I am going to stick around for an installment in a franchise. If I don't like a particular part (movie, show, series, whatever) then I'll not keep going. Like, I cannot stand ROTS in the Star Wars franchise. So, I don't watch it. But, I don't give up on Star Wars as the result.

For me, it comes down to spending an hour a week or a couple over every few years, to stay current and involved in fandom. Even if an installment isn’t great, there’s a lot of value in interacting with various people.

 

[fireproof78]

For me, it comes down to spending an hour a week or a couple over every few years, to stay current and involved in fandom. Even if an installment isn’t great, there’s a lot of value in interacting with various people.

Completely agree.

 

[Qonundrum]

Of all the criticisms of GE I've seen, this (oft-repeated one) is the one I find to be the most utterly stupid and flat-out wrong.

Whatever your opinions on the ST are, I think we can all agree that the ST leans heavily on the images and iconography of the OT, and often downright lifts massive chunks of its narrative. The "world" of the ST was contorted to resemble the OT, whether or not it made any logical sense.

So the ST is obviously massively indebted to the OT. And, since GE is "set" in the ST, it similar owes the same massive debt to the OT.

When people say there's nothing from the OT in Galaxy's Edge, it's laughable.

Perhaps you missed the centerpiece of the entire park, a massive full-scale Millennium Falcon? Or the ride that lets you hang out in the Falcon and actually fly in it?

Perhaps you missed the massive, full-scale X-Wing and A-Wings that are in the park? Yes, while all these were used in the ST, they were born in the OT and owe their existence to those films and are still associated with those films first and foremost.

The droid and lightsaber builds also harken back to the OT (and, in the case of lightsabers, actually feel more PT than anything else.) The land is full of droids and vehicles and trophies and countless bits of ephemera, scenery and props that all have an OT aesthetic.

The land features Chewbacca and R2 (although the latter is currently limited to the droid shop.) The land features stormtroopers. The ST stormies were designed to be as similar to the original stormtroopers as possible while also suggesting the passage of time and the refinement of the technology. Dok Ondar is an Ithorian - no Ithorians in the ST! Hondo ain't from the ST, either.

If you had never seen the ST at all, the only thing in Galaxy's Edge that would be slightly confusing would be the new nomenclature for the "Rebels" and "Empire" and the presence of Kylo Ren and Rey. That's it!

The entire park evokes the spirit, images and aesthetic of Star Wars going back to the original films.

Sure, I get that some people would have wanted to see Darth Vader.

But those who complain that it's not "Star Wars" are being willfully disingenuous and/or stupid.

99% correct but forgetting other tangents most people won't spend the time with, a generic desert planet with goofy name vs that scary guy in the funky fresh black mask that sounds like he has a scuba tank fetish - that is what people mostly think of and it's first and foremost without having to TLDR anything to make the connection it's still Star Wars. Remember, these are general audiences: they're not going to play mental hopscotch (no relation probably to that song by Missing Persons of the same title...) to make the correlation. Unless they do. But Darth Vader is still #1 in most peoples' minds due to an iconic status not even Darth Maul achieved.

Never mind it is bizarre that legacy characters wouldn't be there, not in any real capacity. The new ones, obviously... but I'll sell you a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich and not include the bacon and lettuce and say the tomato just came off the shelf but the bacon and lettuce were a couple days old.

And does it matter, per the current hoopla on youtube, if there's some royalties clause - especially when so many OT elements were used in the ST, for which a cut would go out regardless? That claim is silly, as even best case scenario they wouldn't be out as much money to use the characters out of 25, 10, 5, whatever % is agreed upon. Even some of the youtubers' rebuttals pretty much gloss around the royalties issue and not debunking the claim head on, meaning there probably is a percentage - but it's not going to matter unless the ST takes off with as much hysteria the OT had. So far, it hasn't.

The ST is still Star Wars, yes, but what's been iconic and standing the test of time is still the OT, as the ST relies on it as blueprints. Kylo with his mask just doesn't compare. Not even the new lightsaber, which is admittedly cool. Some people might go to see the big Falcon ride. Thank the OT for that.

 

[Crewman6]

99% correct but forgetting other tangents most people won't spend the time with, a generic desert planet with goofy name vs that scary guy in the funky fresh black mask that sounds like he has a scuba tank fetish - that is what people mostly think of and it's first and foremost without having to TLDR anything to make the connection it's still Star Wars. Remember, these are general audiences: they're not going to play mental hopscotch (no relation probably to that song by Missing Persons of the same title...) to make the correlation. Unless they do. But Darth Vader is still #1 in most peoples' minds due to an iconic status not even Darth Maul achieved.

Never mind it is bizarre that legacy characters wouldn't be there, not in any real capacity. The new ones, obviously... but I'll sell you a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich and not include the bacon and lettuce and say the tomato just came off the shelf but the bacon and lettuce were a couple days old.

And does it matter, per the current hoopla on youtube, if there's some royalties clause - especially when so many OT elements were used in the ST, for which a cut would go out regardless? That claim is silly, as even best case scenario they wouldn't be out as much money to use the characters out of 25, 10, 5, whatever % is agreed upon. Even some of the youtubers' rebuttals pretty much gloss around the royalties issue and not debunking the claim head on, meaning there probably is a percentage - but it's not going to matter unless the ST takes off with as much hysteria the OT had. So far, it hasn't.

The ST is still Star Wars, yes, but what's been iconic and standing the test of time is still the OT, as the ST relies on it as blueprints. Kylo with his mask just doesn't compare. Not even the new lightsaber, which is admittedly cool. Some people might go to see the big Falcon ride. Thank the OT for that.

You just took 20 paragraphs to say, "Yeah, but no Darth Vader."

I know. I know GE doesn't have Darth Vader. I also know Darth Vader is arguably THE most iconic element of the original Star Wars films.

I further know that the OT is still THE most memorable, the best, the most iconic and most popular aspect of the franchise and always will be. Everything else, whether prequel, sequel or spinoff, will always be viewed through that lens. Forever.

The decision to create GE the way they did and thus eliminate what is arguably the singular most recognizable element from SW from the park was....an interesting one. Some might say bold, some might say foolish. Some might say a little of both.

Yeah, I know Vader isn't there and I know he's hugely popular.

But there's also more than JUST Vader. And all I was saying was that there is, of course, a LOT in Galaxy's Edge that comes from the OT. Not Vader, but other stuff!

And those who say otherwise are being dishonest, either willfully or out of ignorance.

That's it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Coming into the discussion late, but I thought Luke's journey was the best part of The Last Jedi. In fact, the stuff with Luke and Rey is some of my favorite stuff in the entire saga.

To me, watching The Last Jedi is like watching two different movies. I love the stuff with Luke and Rey and I even thought Kylo Ren (previously known only as Darth Emo) was better presented in this movie than he was in the first one. I thought the scenes with these characters was near Empire Strikes Back level material. The stuff with Poe and Finn on the other hand, both the journey to the casino planet and the mutiny, was prequel levels bad. YMMV.

 

[Ithekro]

Vader is busy at Star Tours.

 

[Crewman6]

Vader is busy at Star Tours.

...sometimes....

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

You just took 20 paragraphs to say, "Yeah, but no Darth Vader."

I know. I know GE doesn't have Darth Vader. I also know Darth Vader is arguably THE most iconic element of the original Star Wars films.

I further know that the OT is still THE most memorable, the best, the most iconic and most popular aspect of the franchise and always will be. Everything else, whether prequel, sequel or spinoff, will always be viewed through that lens. Forever.

The decision to create GE the way they did and thus eliminate what is arguably the singular most recognizable element from SW from the park was....an interesting one. Some might say bold, some might say foolish. Some might say a little of both.

Yeah, I know Vader isn't there and I know he's hugely popular.

But there's also more than JUST Vader. And all I was saying was that there is, of course, a LOT in Galaxy's Edge that comes from the OT. Not Vader, but other stuff!

And those who say otherwise are being dishonest, either willfully or out of ignorance.

That's it.

No.. GE is all Dollar General sequel stuff. All of it

 

[Crewman6]

No.. GE is all Dollar General sequel stuff. All of it

Are you just trolling now? Ugh. Get a hobby.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Are you just trolling now? Ugh. Get a hobby.

no not trolling. It's not the OT falcon.. it's sequel trilogy falcon. It's not any notable SW places.. it's a place they made up just to push GE

 

[Set Harth]

Again, Star Wars is not science fiction. It is space fantasy. There are no hard and fast rules about how the tech works.

Nonsense. There's always the question of whether those creating content care to be consistent with prior material.

 

[David cgc]

It's not the OT falcon.. it's sequel trilogy falcon.

There are two differences, and I'm not sure you know the second one. There were more changes between the ANH and ESB Falcons.

 

[jaime]

There are two differences, and I'm not sure you know the second one. There were more changes between the ANH and ESB Falcons.

Yeah, but the analogue to digital handover fucked everyone’s aerials, and with emissions controls, it had to have its engines done. It’s all a ploy by manufacturers and a cynical green motivated cash grab I tell ya...

 

[fireproof78]

no not trolling. It's not the OT falcon.. it's sequel trilogy falcon. It's not any notable SW places.. it's a place they made up just to push GE

Because they want it to be a lived in experience in the Star Wars universe, not just the Star Wars equivalent of an Elvis impersonator.

Star Tours did a similar thing. I'm sure there was gripping about that too.

People don't have to like GE but that doesn't make it less Star Wars.

 

[JD]

You just took 20 paragraphs to say, "Yeah, but no Darth Vader."

I know. I know GE doesn't have Darth Vader. I also know Darth Vader is arguably THE most iconic element of the original Star Wars films.

I further know that the OT is still THE most memorable, the best, the most iconic and most popular aspect of the franchise and always will be. Everything else, whether prequel, sequel or spinoff, will always be viewed through that lens. Forever.

The decision to create GE the way they did and thus eliminate what is arguably the singular most recognizable element from SW from the park was....an interesting one. Some might say bold, some might say foolish. Some might say a little of both.

Yeah, I know Vader isn't there and I know he's hugely popular.

But there's also more than JUST Vader. And all I was saying was that there is, of course, a LOT in Galaxy's Edge that comes from the OT. Not Vader, but other stuff!

And those who say otherwise are being dishonest, either willfully or out of ignorance.

That's it.

The original idea they presented when the first started talking about Galaxy's Edge was that they decided to make it a new planet where you could have your own unique Star Wars experience rather than just recreating the stuff in the movies. The idea was for it for it to feel like you were actually traveling to the Star Wars universe, and I could see where just recreating a bunch of stuff from the movies and mashing it together could kind of break that illusion.
EDIT: Or what @fireproof78 just said.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Doesn't matter it is generic SW. I mean it would be as if Universal set a theme park called Lampgreen, a Wizarding school 50 miles from Hogwarts. No one would care