Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

[LitmusDragon]

Excellent episode. This whole Jacob and his adversary thing seems to raise more questions than it answers. Clearly the Lostaways have been pawns in their game. Whose game is it however?

I tend to agree that Smokey is Jacob's adversary that we met at the beginning of the episodes or at least is working with him.

Wild speculation-
1. Smokey/the adversary has no real power off of the island. All of the time travel stuff was entirely Jacob's doing.
2. Jacob is a man, who sometime in the distant past gained control of the power of the island, and became it's caretaker.
3. The adversary may represent the embodiment of the island itself.
4. Jacob, as custodian of the Island, keeps the power of the adversary, who is malevolent, in check.
5. The adversary can not kill Jacob outright as he is in servitude to Jacob, similar to how a magic genie serves it's master.
6. The primary "rule" of Jacob's power is that he is invulnerable, except for one mortal man who might kill him
7. In each instance he makes this man the "leader" of the others and gives him tasks to reinforce their loyalty
8. This person, who is "special", can also become the caretaker if Jacob were ever to die
9. The adversary, in a bid for freedom, arrange a situation where Jacob would die but no suitable caretaker would be present
10. Jacob tricked the adversary by hiding the special people in the past
11. Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Hurley, one of them (or all of them) will take over Jacob's role when they arrive in the present

This is probably wildly incorrect but I had fun with it.

 

[chrisspringob]

The tragedy of the situation is that Jack was originally the biggest skeptic re: Locke being special, Locke knowing what he was doing, Locke having a destiny, etc. Jack was the man of science, and didn't believe any of that stuff. But Jack eventually comes around, and tells Richard to give Locke another chance. Richard giving him another chance is what ends up getting Jacob killed.

 

[TheGodBen]

Excellent. The best episode of the season, and the best finale since season 2 and the hatch implosion. I called Locke not being Locke at the start of the episode, and I was 90% certain that was Locke's body in the crate, but it was still a great episode getting to that point. One of Lost's best ever.

One thing I noticed; Jacob didn't appear in Juliet's flashback and he never touched her or guided her to the island. She might not have played any part in his plans, and since she was the one who set off the nuke maybe that wasn't supposed to happen.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well, I managed to squeeze the finale into my busy schedule...

That was quite simply the most emotionally draining episode of my life. Holy fuck muffins. That was amazing. AMAZING.

I feared for a long time Juliet was going to bite the bullet but watching her ripped out of Sawyer's (or is it better to call him James at this point?) hands was still very painful. That guy has gone through so much pain and to finally get some peace but have it ripped away from his heartbreaking. After Juliet (who had been on the Island longer than any of the Losties), I think he deserved to get off the Island more than anyone else. And yet...I still have a feeling she might still be alive. Only time (heh, time) can tell.

Based on early rumors about the casting of Jacob, I figured the opening scene early on, but I was very intrigued by Jacob's role throughout the episode. Popping up in significant movements such as the infamous Jack surgery to John's paralysis (I knew his body was about to fall...I KNEW it!). He was there when Nadia died (and in fact SAVED Sayid...just like he saved John...hm...in a metaphysical sense, saved them all), but I find it odd that he wasn't in Juliet's flashback. Hers seemed out of place and only served to drive Juliet and James' seperation. However, I loved how his appearance to Hurley was the most...extenstensial and direct appearance. I still wonder about the guitar case (I had hoped it was Charlie's...maybe it still is).

Seeing Rose and Bernard (and Vincent, too!), even just for two scenes was bloody wonderful. And of course they were content to live on the Island as is, away from all the sillly, pity fighting (which tied nicely back to the opening scene with Jacob and...his nemesis). As far as I'm concerned, this confirms they're Adam & Eve.

Of course, as any typical LOST episode (and especially season finale), with every answered question, there are ten more questions. What is Illiana's tie to Jacob? Who is Jacob's nemesis, who seems to have found a "loophole" and taken John's form (but not possessing his body as well as suspected)? If John's body wasn't possessed, then what happened to Christian's body? What is really happening with John? What has been happening with Christian? Where the FUCK is Claire?! What will happen to...well, everyone!?! Why do I have to wait until JANUARY?!?!?!?!?!!?

Oh, hell, yes, I voted Excellent.

 

[Capn Flukie]

About the statue, where is the rest of it? If it was destroyed, where is the rubble left from it? It's like the rest just... disappeared.

 

[chrisspringob]

I wish they would have done the setup on faux-Locke's reveal differently. The fact that the episode opens with Jacob's rival telling Jacob that he wants to kill him, and the fact that faux-Locke had already informed Ben that he intended to kill Jacob made faux-Locke turning to actually be Jacob's rival a little too obvious. It was kind of surprising when they opened the crate, and it was Locke's body in there, but not nearly as surprising as it could have been. I don't know exactly how I would have done it myself though. Maybe setting up the character of Jacob's rival earlier in the series would have helped. I don't know.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

So who are the Ilana people? The way Jacob said "they're coming", makes me think that he's referring to Ilana or someone that will come to the Island now because he has died.

As others have said, I'm fairly certain Jack and company are "they."

Will Sayid die? Better not!

I forgot to mention this earlier. I cried out in pain when he got shot. Sayid is my second favorite character after Hurley (and barely beating out James and John). I will be very pissed if he dies.

Actually come to think of it, I think the characters might stay in 1977. We never saw Annie again and she's supposed to be important. We never learned the circumstances of Horace building Jacob's Cabin or why Jacob was in that cabin. We never saw Chang loose his arm (only his hand/wrist was hit by the metal, right?).

There's also seeing Stuart Radzinsky's fate and how Kelvin Inman ties into all of this. While I think Jack and company will return to 2007 immediately, I don't think we've seen the last of 1977. We'll just see it in the good ol' fashioned form of flashbacks.

They were protected by Vincent.

Damn straight! Don't mess with Vincent!

Seems like it, with the promo at the end "Destiny" and an eye opening up.

I was going to give my own impression, but I noticed someone already proved what I figured: It's Jack's eye from the very first shot of the show.

The tragedy of the situation is that Jack was originally the biggest skeptic re: Locke being special, Locke knowing what he was doing, Locke having a destiny, etc. Jack was the man of science, and didn't believe any of that stuff. But Jack eventually comes around, and tells Richard to give Locke another chance. Richard giving him another chance is what ends up getting Jacob killed.

Yes, I loved that! My jaw literally fell to the ground when Jack said that. Hell, this slow evolution in his character season (after the whole whining stuff from last season) has almost redeemed him in my eyes. I've hated Jack ever since Boone died. It was like a switch had been flipped. From that point on, I hated Jack and his damn harebrained ideas. But now? Who knows what will happen...

But one thing is for certain. I still hate Kate.


As for the the Latin translation, I got this from LostPedia:

Richard Alpert responded to the question of "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" with "Ille qui nos omnes servabit" - The translation is actually "Whoever will help us, will help everyone." Often online translators distort the true meaning of the sentence. One must understand the basics of Latin to translate the sentence properly.

This translation makes the most sense of the translations I've seen in this thread. Additionally, having taken Latin, I agree that translating Latin can be very particular, but my own Latin is a bit rusty, so I won't attempt to translate it on my own...at least at the moment.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Excellent. The best episode of the season, and the best finale since season 2 and the hatch implosion. I called Locke not being Locke at the start of the episode, and I was 90% certain that was Locke's body in the crate, but it was still a great episode getting to that point. One of Lost's best ever.

One thing I noticed; Jacob didn't appear in Juliet's flashback and he never touched her or guided her to the island. She might not have played any part in his plans, and since she was the one who set off the nuke maybe that wasn't supposed to happen.

well perhaps juliet is the variable. Her falling into the hole and surviving the fall was probably never a factor. Her continuing with the mission by taking a rock to jughead was probably the one variable that set everything in motion for next season. if she doesn't come back next season, she went out like a hero.

 

[Brolan]

Sorry, gave it a Poor rating.

Five seasons in and we are just finding out the whole thing revolves around two characters we never saw before? I feel like I'm reading a bad murder mystery where the murderer is introduced in the last chapter.

But I can't say I'm surprised, I saw this coming since Live Together, Die Alone the end of season 2. The writers are pulling this story out from their lower regions.

 

[zengoth]

If it is, then anybody who watched the last season of Buffy, this is very much like The First Evil.

i had just about forgotten that nightmare- thanx

but there's a whole graveyard of dead bodies that Esau/Smokey could've used. From Shannon/Boone/Charlie to poor ol' Nikki & Paolo and sad ol' Arzt

And Walt's still among the living, so I have to assume that's a totally different sort of teleportation (kinda what Jacob was probably doing to manage his meet-n-greet of the castaways).

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

i really hope they bring walt back next season and wrap up his story. Man did they drop the ball with Michael's story. Never reallly got any real closure with him, so hopefully they can redeem themselves with Walt. Which brings me to Miles, Bram was trying to recruit him or at least talk him into not going with Naomi and co. to the island. So what was that all about? Hopefully that will be addressed as well next season.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Sorry, gave it a Poor rating.

Five seasons in and we are just finding out the whole thing revolves around two characters we never saw before? I feel like I'm reading a bad murder mystery where the murderer is introduced in the last chapter.

Not necessarily. For starters, Jacob has been mentioned since the second season (I believe, if not, early third) and was invisible but in the scene during "Man Behind the Curtain". If the other character is, as many have speculated, the smoke monster, we've seen him since the second season and seen his effects since the first.

 

[Mr Light]

They started talking about "Him" in mid Season Two and they first mentioned Jacob in 3X6 "I Do". I think it's cool that we just learned about Jacob's Adversary because it completely changes the entire scope of the story. Just when you think you know what the show is about they introduce something that changes everything and yet fits in perfectly.

 

[Hunter X]

The themes of two adversaries, one dark, one light, goes way back to the beginning of the first season as well. Locke explaining backgammon to Walt, the rocks found on Adam and Eve's skeletons, Locke's eyes in Claire's dream, and the slaving ship being named the black rock all show that the writers had a big good vs. evil story in mind from the start. Back then, I remember speculation centred on whether the camp would split with one side light and the other dark, and when it did do exactly this in season 4 it seemed the speculation was onto something. That, however, didn't amount to anything. Now the true good vs. evil story is coming out, and I think it's going to bring the story full circle. Anyone who thinks the writers didn't have at least some of this in mind from the beginning simply hasn't been paying attention to the details.

That said, after a day of thinking about it, I think this is the weakest finale they've done so far, and season 5 is the weakest season. It's very quick and plot based, for sure, but it was missing the character-aspect that grounds the show. We got little moments, like Sawyer and Juilet's relationship in LaFleur and Miles coming to grips with his father issues in Some Like It Hoth, but these centred around new characters and new relationships. A lot of the season felt like setup for the end. Necessary setup, but not engaging for me on its own.

All of this can be seen in the finale as well. There was one actual human moment to me: Rose and Bernard. Everything else was about hiking to Jacob and getting the bomb to the Swan. Previous finales give just about every character something to do.

Season 1: Jack, Hurley, Locke and Kate go into the jungle to get dynamite and blow up the hatch. Charlie and Sayid rescue Aaron. Jin, Sawyer, Michael and Walt set out on the raft. Sun and Shannon have solid emotional bits, though not an ongoing storyline.

Season 2: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and Michael go to rescue Walt and fall into Michael's trap. Locke and Desmond team up to see what happens when the button isn't pushed while Mr. Eko and Charlie try to stop them. Sayid, Sun and Jin take the sailboat to help out Jack and team.

Season 3: Jack leads Kate, Claire and other Losties to the radio tower while Ben intercepts. Locke shows up in the end to kill Naomi. Sayid, Jin and Bernard stay behind to spring a trap. Hurley, Juliet and Sawyer go to rescue them. Charlie and Desmond shut off the jamming device in the Looking Glass.

Season 4: Locke and Ben go to the Orchid. Kate, Sayid help the Others free Ben and get off the island. Jack and Sawyer get Hurley and end up in the helicopter, though Sawyer jumps out. Sun, Jin, Michael and Desmond deal with the bomb on the freighter. Oceanic 6 flashbacks.

Season 5: Jack goes to set off the bomb in the Swan, a bunch of main characters follow him. Kate, Sawyer and Juliet have relationship drama. Locke leads the Others to the beach, other main characters follow him. Sun asks questions for the viewers. Ilana hikes with her team across the island, guest stars follow her.

My point being, The Incident wasn't the ensamble piece I've come to expect from Lost finales. Most characters didn't have much to do except follow Jack, Locke or Ilana as they hiked around and talked.

It wasn't a bad episode; I was entertained. Season 5 wasn't a bad season. I think a lot of it was necessary. But it was a little too much "watching people do stuff" and not enough caring about what they do or why they're doing it.

 

[sidious618]

Sorry, gave it a Poor rating.

Five seasons in and we are just finding out the whole thing revolves around two characters we never saw before? I feel like I'm reading a bad murder mystery where the murderer is introduced in the last chapter.

But I can't say I'm surprised, I saw this coming since Live Together, Die Alone the end of season 2. The writers are pulling this story out from their lower regions.

I thought last night's episode proved once and for all that they had a plan. We've seen notLocke before- in the cabin which was notLocke's cabin instead of Jacob's. Ben improvised and just thought he'd make it as if he saw something in the chair. The voice that cried out was notLocke's.

Of course, the eternal battle between the two of them goes back to the pilot with the backgammon game and to Claire's dream where Locke had one black eye and one white eye.

On that note, the fact that John was in those two scenes tells me that he is defiantely part of the ongoing sturggle and will have a role to play in the future.

 

[Hermiod]

I voted Excellent. If I could give it a higher rating than that I would.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I loved the scene where Miles asked the others if they have considered the possibility that the nuke could be the cause of the incident, I've been thinking exactly the same thing since like three weeks ago or whenever Daniel explained his plan the first time and was starting to get pissed off that all the characters on the show are too stupid to think that through.

Thank you, Miles.

 

[zengoth]

I tend to agree that Smokey is Jacob's adversary that we met at the beginning of the episodes or at least is working with him.

Wild speculation-
1. Smokey/the adversary has no real power off of the island. All of the time travel stuff was entirely Jacob's doing.

But if Adversary=Christian, we know Christian's been spotted off-island - didn't he appear to Michael just before the freighter blew?
Perhaps he explains Hugo seeing Charlie & Anna Lucia as well.

Also, please remind me - the 2nd time we visited the cabin - it was Hugo who went up to the window to peer in and someone peered out. Is it possible he inadvertantly broke the ash circle? Did Smokey get the ability to mimic human form only after escaping the cabin?

 

[Mr Awe]

WE've all generally come to the conclusion that "Esau" has been engineering these events to kill Jacob... but what about Jacob and the "70s folks"?

The whole time travel thing could be Jacob's counter-move to Esau's plan? He knew "Esau" had put his plan into motion so he went around and 'touched' Jack/Sawyer/Kate/Hurley/etc... Maybe that 'touch' is why THEY got selectively flashed back in time, both when Ben turned the wheel and from the Ajira flight. Like a "marker" that says, hey, everybody who has this mark on them, gets thrown back in time when things flash.

When he tells Esau "they're coming" before he dies... he's of course talking about all the people from the 70s, who have succeeded in changing history? 70s are Jacob's failsafe.

Yes, I've discussed this in this very thread. Jacob is manipulating events so that the 06 return to the island. The O6 who return to the past are instrumental in carrying out Daniel's plan after he dies. The plan to change history would've died with Daniel. Hence, you can guess that changing history will save Jacob.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Predictions for next year. Yeah, as I said, they don't all die. I think they are successful in changing time. But, not in the way they expect. There is clearly another manipulator here that they've already set up, Jacob. He's visited all of the Losties, many before they knew of the island. He clearly knows the future and I believe is in manipulating events, weaving the fabric of time so to speak. He knows of the other guys plans (we don't have a name yet right?) and is working on a counter plan. So, he's cooking up something to prevent him from being killed. Ben kills Jacob but then the timeline is changed.

Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.

No, we're talking about changing the timeline, not maintaining the current one. So, it does work. There's already proof of being able to change time. In the first episode with Miles with the kid. Daniel talks to Desmond in the past who suddenly remembers it in the future. He didn't remember that before.

Also, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid were not supposed to go back to 1977 originally. Yet, Daniel's mom and Jacob have helped ensure that they will. Anything they do is different than the previous time loop. Their present in the past is already rippling to the present. The picture in the Dharmaville. That's an immediate change.

So, yes, things will look consistent to a point from the point of view of the characters in the present. But, we're talking changing the timeline.

Mr Awe