Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

[exodus]

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

Nobody else on the Island has survived a fatal injury.

Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Arst, Anna Lucia.....

Even members of the Others haven't cheated death.

If the Island doesn't want you to die, no fatal injury can happen.
Remember Micheal when he tried to kill himself?

Dead is dead, as we have so very clearly seen with Locke/Not-Locke. Juliet is dead.

I think Sayid will die too. You don't just shoot a kid. The island pay back is a bitch!

WORD!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

I didn't think that time travel minus changing the timeline was an option. Either they changed the timeline and they travel (before the bomb can kill anyone since it should be instantaneous) or they don't change the timeline and they're all killed in the blast.

Since the cast is unlikely to be all killed, I'd say that they've time-travelled somewhere. And since the entire drama of Jack's actions revolve around the idea that time travel will neutralize everything they've been through, their bodies won't go along for the ride - they will travel into their bodies whenever they happen to be. The question is whether their memories will also be zapped.

If their bodies time travel then their memories will also travel, and then what was the fuss about Jack wiping out everyone's memories and destroying their history together so that they all become strangers? That could work w/n the established logic - to the extent that any logic has been established - but it wouldn't work dramatically at all.

 

[Mr Awe]

Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.

No, we're talking about changing the timeline, not maintaining the current one. So, it does work. There's already proof of being able to change time. In the first episode with Miles with the kid. Daniel talks to Desmond in the past who suddenly remembers it in the future. He didn't remember that before.

Also, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid were not supposed to go back to 1977 originally. Yet, Daniel's mom and Jacob have helped ensure that they will. Anything they do is different than the previous time loop. Their present in the past is already rippling to the present. The picture in the Dharmaville. That's an immediate change.

So, yes, things will look consistent to a point from the point of view of the characters in the present. But, we're talking changing the timeline.

I'm not sure I explained my argument clearly. i understand that you're talking about changing the timeline. But that would mean that there's an "original timeline" in which the Losties never went back to the 1970s and an "altered timeline" in which they did. But if that's the case, then the version of 2007 that we've been watching all season long is the "altered timeline", not the original one. We know this because there's a picture of the Losties from the Dharma era, and because Richard says he remembers them and "watched them die".

So nothing they did back in the 1970s prevented, say, Jacob from being killed. Because their actions are already part of the timeline that we've been watching all season, and Jacob was in fact killed.

Depends how time works in Lost doesn't it? Right now it seems like it can loop rather than create alternative time lines. We've seen that already. I've theorized elsewhere (oh, wait, actually in this thread) that what we're watching now may already be an interation in a time loop that goes around. A signiture of a time loop that is manipulated would be unusual concidences. What do we have in a lost, a bunch of unusual conincidences. The whys of that, I won't repeat but I've tossed it out earlier in this thread. It's a wild theory, I could well be wrong.

Mr Awe

 

[LitmusDragon]

My reason for thinking Juliet may not be dead is because that scene was almost an exact mirror for the scene at the end of Season 2 where Des is caught in the hatch explosion. Des survived the hatch explosion, ergo Juliet may very well survive the swan explosion.

 

[exodus]

My reason for thinking Juliet may not be dead is because that scene was almost an exact mirror for the scene at the end of Season 2 where Des is caught in the hatch explosion. Des survived the hatch explosion, ergo Juliet may very well survive the swan explosion.

Desmond didn't have internal injuries as was the case by her bleeding from the mouth before it blew.

Seeing how that happen & if she got blown up in the air like Desmond too, she sho' be dead now!

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Why has nobody mentioned Sayid wearing Horace's jumpsuit? They seemed to make a big point of it?

Wasn't "Horace" the skeleton guy Hurley found in the van? Or am I misremembering that?

 

[Jaron]

Why has nobody mentioned Sayid wearing Horace's jumpsuit? They seemed to make a big point of it?

Wasn't "Horace" the skeleton guy Hurley found in the van? Or am I misremembering that?

No, the guy in the van was Roger Workman aka Roger Linus aka Ben's Jerkass Dad.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Ah... thanks. Then I wonder what the point was of Sayid taking Horace's jumpsuit. It could have been anybody's for going undercover. In fact it SHOULD have been anybody's instead of such a prominent person's.

 

[exodus]

Ah... thanks. Then I wonder what the point was of Sayid taking Horace's jumpsuit. It could have been anybody's for going undercover. In fact it SHOULD have been anybody's instead of such a prominent person's.

Isn't everything on the show about 6 degrees of seperation?

 

[zengoth]

Ah... thanks. Then I wonder what the point was of Sayid taking Horace's jumpsuit. It could have been anybody's for going undercover. In fact it SHOULD have been anybody's instead of such a prominent person's.

and why wasn't Horace in his jumpsuit? hmmmm

 

[zengoth]

Since the cast is unlikely to be all killed, I'd say that they've time-travelled somewhere. And since the entire drama of Jack's actions revolve around the idea that time travel will neutralize everything they've been through, their bodies won't go along for the ride - they will travel into their bodies whenever they happen to be. The question is whether their memories will also be zapped.

If their bodies time travel then their memories will also travel, and then what was the fuss about Jack wiping out everyone's memories and destroying their history together so that they all become strangers? That could work w/n the established logic - to the extent that any logic has been established - but it wouldn't work dramatically at all.

If the 815 passengers get returned to their plane and wind up @Lax, would life in Dharmaville have gone back to it's original setting (bookclub brunches with Ben & Juliet?) as well?

 

[Mallet]

Ah... thanks. Then I wonder what the point was of Sayid taking Horace's jumpsuit. It could have been anybody's for going undercover. In fact it SHOULD have been anybody's instead of such a prominent person's.

I figured they were trying to show that the tunnel entrance to the Other's catacombs was in the basement of Horace's house, which turns out to also be Ben's house in 2004. We know this because in the future(present) we have seen Ben use the basement to enter the catacombs.

I assume showing us this was just to tie up loose ends for earlier episodes, like where Ben went when he summoned Smokey.

 

[Mallet]

This is another thought I just had.

We still haven't seen the stealing of the other raft (by Sawyer & co.) from the new crashies point of view. That means at some point they have to leave the "foot" and return to the beach and see Sawyer & Co. paddling away and then give chase. Then Juliet will shoot one of them. I wonder who gets hit?

I thought we'd get this scene this season, but I guess it is still to come next year.


...Unless the future has been changed and it now never happens...

 

[Michael]

Oh. My. God. That was just excellent! Watching that episode was one of the most gripping TV experiences I ever had. I don't know why I didn't start to follow this show earlier. It amazes me how the writers, directors and actors constantly manage to produce such wonderful episodes. I love this show! How the fuck am I supposed survive the next nine months?

About the statue, where is the rest of it? If it was destroyed, where is the rubble left from it? It's like the rest just... disappeared.

I always figured it's lying in the water. Is that improbable?

 

[Capn Flukie]

^ on Lost? Noooo....

 

[TheGodBen]

Oh. My. God. That was just excellent! Watching that episode was one of the most gripping TV experiences I ever had. I don't know why I didn't start to follow this show earlier. It amazes me how the writers, directors and actors constantly manage to produce such wonderful episodes. I love this show! How the fuck am I supposed survive the next nine months?

The same way the rest of us managed it for the last two years.

One good thing about season 6 being the final season; this is the last time those bastards can do this to us and expect us to wait almost a year to find out what happens. And if the series finale ends on a shocking twist with no explanation then I am going to kill Damon and Carlton. Slowly.

 

[TGTheodore]

Wow! The ending was a direct rip-off of Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

--Ted

 

[Michael]

The same way the rest of us managed it for the last two years.

Yeah, I know. I, on the other hand, watched the whole series in one long session in the course of a little over a week. So I never really had to wait up until now. Oh boy, I'm not accustomed to wait so long.

And if the series finale ends on a shocking twist with no explanation then I am going to kill Damon and Carlton. Slowly.

But ... but ... but this is about the journey, not the destination!

 

[TheGodBen]

But ... but ... but this is about the journey, not the destination!

Screw the journey! I have invested over four years into this show and this finale made me realise that I still don't have a clue as to what the frak is going on!

 

[Dream]

Wow. That season finale was either the BEST episode ever or the WORSE episode ever. I still haven't made up my mind.