Lost 5x07: "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham"

[Jaron]

One of the things I liked is when Locke is reborn on the island, he's actually giving answers to the questions asked. Too often on Lost, the characters have concealed information from one another for absolutely no reason. Here, Locke tells how he ended up on the plane as best he can and gives the name of the Dharma Iniative and how he was on the island before.

Of course, he probably sounds cryptic to the crash survivors.

Survivor: What do you remember?
Locke: I remember dying.
S: Yes, my life flashed before my eyes too.
L: No, no. I died, and came back to life.
S: This island is a new chance at life for all of us, John.
L: You don't understand. That's the man who killed me.
S: He broke your heart?
L: No! He strangled me to death.
S: Look, what you guys do in bed is none--
L: HE PUT ME IN THAT COFFIN!
S: Like I said, your weird fetishes are--
L: *sigh* Why did I even want to come back here?

 

[Skywalker]

My tape cut out at the very end, when the new guy was describing what happened during the crash to Locke. He was about to say something about Hurley - lemme guess, all the people who were "supposed" to return vanished in front of his eyes?

More or less. New Guy said that everyone was accounted for except those who disappeared and those who were injured. When Locke inquired about the latter group, New Guy took him to them and they find Ben there.

Incidentally, Ben acting against the island's wishes totally explains the whole tumor thing.

And if the Island teleports the people it "wants" to safety, that very neatly explains how so many people in 815 survived the crash, many without any injuries at all, why the survivors were all outside the plane (they could have crawled out of the wreckage but I don't recall anyone saying they did that) and why Lostzilla ate poor Matt Parkman - being badly injured and still in the plane, he definitely was not supposed to survive - so Lostzilla finished him off.

It could also explain why all of the Tailies who survived the crash had to actually flee the wreckage and swim to shore, but out of all of them, the only one who ultimately survived was Bernard--who mysteriously ended up in a tree in the middle of the jungle.

 

[Hermiod]

I graded this an Excellent. The first episode of the season I have really enjoyed.

 

[Jono]

Above average. WOuld have probablt pushed it up a place if they also included some meaningful Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sayid post crash time, maybe even if it were only a minute of two in the entire episode.

Interested to see who the woman is that went with the pilot. Obvious pick is Sun but with Lost I wouldn't be surprised to see Mrs Hawkins or anyone who was thought "dead" before hand.

So far I'm pretty happy with this seasons so far.

I don't believe that Ben or Widmore are good guys. The both have an agenda that is centred around themselves and what they think their place on the island is. Maybe the the group from Oceanic 815 is only meant to help choose a victor for the island or on the other hand that they are meant to complete replace them and be the others reborn...which is sort of based on the Matrix premise of the multiple "Ones".

 

[Mr Light]

By the way, LOST fell again in the ratings from the previous week. "Place is Death" got a 9.82, "316" got a 11.41, "Bentham" got a 9.82. Did the 316 ads proclaim the O6 would return to the Island in that episode or something? Why the spike?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

It could also explain why all of the Tailies who survived the crash had to actually flee the wreckage and swim to shore, but out of all of them, the only one who ultimately survived was Bernard--who mysteriously ended up in a tree in the middle of the jungle.

I wondered if Ana-Lucia, Libby and Eko teleported into the water - hitting the water at that speed would have been the same as hitting land, and no more survivable - but maybe the island was only "certain" about Bernard and wasn't quite as accommodating for the others (but presumably there were Tailies who never made it out alive at all).

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Another great episode, although it wasn't quite as good as I hoped for (but maybe my experienced was maligned by the fact I had to watch it online with my crappy internet, causing me to restart it every 5 or so minutes). I loved the opening in showing Locke alive again and caught up to the "present" timeline.

I enjoyed each of Locke's reunions with fellow castaways but I was intrigued to notice how with each passing encounter showed more pity towards Locke's nature (but conversely an increasing ultimate willingness to go along with Locke's plea return in the end).

It was wonderful to see Walt again, although I was disappointed that we didn't get a real explanation as to why he didn't have to return to the Island with the rest.

Sad to see that Helen died, but it seems like all of the Losties are destined not to have happy relationships. John, Sayid, Sawyer, etc.

Lastly, I was both surprised and not surprised that Ben convinced Locke not to kill himself, but upon hearing Eloise Hawking's name (more jealousy over Locke's connection to Jacob), Ben turned and killed Locke. Beautiful. How typically Ben.

Oh, and it sounds like Frank survived the crash!

 

[Mallet]

I had a theory way back when (when I was thinking that the survivors were all manipulated on to the plane for a reason by Dharma or some other group) that only the original 48 from the middle of the airplane were meant to survive the crash and that the Tailies had all survived by accident and would/might throw a wrench into the Other's plans because of the fact they weren't supposed to be there.

This whole scenario seemed unlikely (especially with most of the Tailies being killed off without doing much) and it appeared that the coincidence of the main survivors surviving was just that, a coincidence.

But now with Abandon saying he arranges for people to get where they needed to go, maybe it was all influenced/manipulated so that all the people who survived the crash were meant to be on that flight and in the middle section of the plane so they would end up on the island.

Also, remember that some of the the cast (Shannon & Boone) were supposed to fly first class, but got moved into the middle of the plane by a flight attendant. Same with Hurley (Multi-millionaire and a BIG guy) but he couldn't get into first class seating. Also in the original script of the first episode Jack was also supposed to be flying first class and gives up his seat to an old lady at the last minute, thus ending up the the middle section of the plane and surviving.

What does all this mean? Well since Ben didn't know/expect that the plane would crash or know who was on it AND that Abandon worked for Widmore, we can assume that Charles Widomore arranged for Locke to be on the plane and knew that it would crash and Locke would survive. Everyone else who survived just got lucky (or the Island saved them), and Jack, who wasn't supposed to be in the middle of the plane, got lucky and became the wildcard in the whole situation/series and a major player in the war between Widmore and Ben.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

If the island teleports people it wants to safety before the crashes and Kate claims to remember the whole crash of 815, then does she remember being in the plane, in the air, one minute, and then on the beach with a bunch of other people the next?

Was she on the beach before the plane crashed on it?

She might not have told anyone, figuring she was just hallucinating under trauma. Later, when it became clear that something that weird could actually have happened, what was the point of telling others?

Even being in the middle of the plane should necessarily save all those people. A mid-air breakup shouldn't be survivable for anyone, except maybe one or two people as a fluke and even then, they should be badly injured. If someone survived with minor or no injuries, it has to be because the island wanted them to. The exceptions would be few and very badly injured people like the pilot and the US Marshall, and both ended up dead anyway.

 

[Mallet]

Well if it was the Hatch that brought the plane down as Desmond thinks (because he didn't push the buttons on time) and that seems very likely given the timing, etc... Then the plane crash already wasn't normal (like those caused by an explosion on board or engine or structure failure) so we can't fully compare this 815 crash to a real plane crash.

Also, if it was the magnetic anomaly that cause the plane to crash, then the magnetic fields of the island and the anomaly could have caused the midsection of the plane to crash at a slower speed then a normal plane crash would, thus allowing for more survivors. A magnetic "cushion" caused by opposite magnetic polarities could have help some people to survive, or some crazy pseudo-sci-fi explanation like that.

 

[zengoth]

If the island is a chunk of a "Solaris" type sentient planet that crash-landed on Earth eons ago, and its "magic" properties are simply natural qualities of its species (and it fashions creatures like Eloise and Jacob in order to communicate with humans - being far too alien to communicate directly) then Hydra could just be a smaller chunk of the same entity that crash-landed in the Pacific. Maybe there was a whole meteor-storm of chunks which explains all the other areas on the planet that were mentioned as having similar properties.

i don't know how i'll feel if an extraterrestrial presence ends up being a part of the big answer. (What was the Stephen King story - the Langoliers? - that including planes and aliens...?) Time travel and its physics is working ok for me right now.

But the fact that both islands seem to disappear at the same @the end of S4 tells me they have the same "powers". Perhaps there will be found a tunnel that goes from under one island to the other...

 

[Mr Light]

I'm almost positive the Blast Door Map or the game version says there IS a subway tunnel from Hydra to the other Stations. There's a subway system going throughout the entire Island they just haven't shown it yet.

 

[Gertch]

I just watched the episode again with my daughter. I was trying to pay more attention to the dialog and acting when Ben and Locke are together.

It now seems to me that Ben realized what he had to kill Locke when Locke said he wasn't going to get Sun to go back. Ben knows they all need to return. And this is his best chance of getting back.

Also, Ben does admit he knows Hawking. So I don't think that was the reason he killed Locke.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well if it was the Hatch that brought the plane down as Desmond thinks (because he didn't push the buttons on time) and that seems very likely given the timing, etc... Then the plane crash already wasn't normal (like those caused by an explosion on board or engine or structure failure) so we can't fully compare this 815 crash to a real plane crash.

In both cases, the planes crashed because the island wanted it to happen. I think poor Des was just a means to an end - it was never really his fault.

Also, if it was the magnetic anomaly that cause the plane to crash, then the magnetic fields of the island and the anomaly could have caused the midsection of the plane to crash at a slower speed then a normal plane crash would, thus allowing for more survivors.

But we actually saw the tail section slam into the water at high speed, and there's no way people could have survive that, much less uninjured and able to swim, if they'd been in the tail section at the time. That rules out levitation as a theory for anyone's survival but I haven't seen anything that rules out teleportation (and it wouldn't be too hard to whomp up a theory why teleportation happens because the island manipulates electromagnetic fields etc).

i don't know how i'll feel if an extraterrestrial presence ends up being a part of the big answer.

I think there needs to be some stab at any explanation for all the anomalies - overenthusiastic magnetic fields and the like doesn't seem out there enough to really cover it.

I'm almost positive the Blast Door Map or the game version says there IS a subway tunnel from Hydra to the other Stations. There's a subway system going throughout the entire Island they just haven't shown it yet.

Oh definitely. I'm hoping the tunnels go all over the planet and link up to the other power points.

 

[Agent Richard07]

^ We saw Ben go into a tunnel under his house when he activated the smoke monster.

 

[Gertch]

^ We've also seen Lostzilla go into two different tunnels as well.

 

[Mr Light]

There's the Cerebus Vents and then there's the Dharma subway tunnels. I'm almost positive they're two separate things, since they wouldn't want Smokey cruisin' past their subway cars

 

[The Nth Doctor]

What you're calling "subway tunnels" have never been referred as such. The Blast Door map called them subterranean conduits.

That being said, I agree that the subterranean conduits and the Cerberus vents are two different things.

 

[Gertch]

They're both holes, in the ground. Some just steeper than others.

 

[Mr Light]

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Emergency_Escape_Protocol http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_conduit Although according to this, Alex says in "Not in Portland" there is NO tunnel between Hydra and the Island. Still, what else is EEP but an underground subway tunnel for emergency evacuations? Also, recall that Ben and Juliet magically appeared and disappeared from the Pearl in "Expose", and that the Staff had an "Escape Hatch" in it.