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Losing the Peace: Destroyed 1701-E?

Not sure how you're using "sophisticated," but I always thought the VGR sets were a step backward in terms of design. All that clutter and blinky lights and stuff, that's not what advanced technology looks like. The more advanced technology gets, the more simple-looking, even invisible, it becomes. The TNG sets looked far more futuristic to me than the self-consciously techy VGR sets.

Also, the TNG bridge was easier to film in, because the ramps made it easier to reposition cameras and lights. That's why they designed it that way.
 
Not sure how you're using "sophisticated," but I always thought the VGR sets were a step backward in terms of design. All that clutter and blinky lights and stuff, that's not what advanced technology looks like. The more advanced technology gets, the more simple-looking, even invisible, it becomes. The TNG sets looked far more futuristic to me than the self-consciously techy VGR sets.

Also, the TNG bridge was easier to film in, because the ramps made it easier to reposition cameras and lights. That's why they designed it that way.

Possibly, but I felt the projected atmosphere of the two sets was also quite nicely different. TNG was about modernity and cutting edge, and so was quite stark and simple, but Voyager was more about family and home, so the bridge felt very complicated and comfortable, where the commanding officers even basically sat on a couch. I found that each set evoked its intended spirit quite nicely.

And one can imagine how a smaller crew on a smaller ship would necessitate bigger consoles, as a greater number of functions that tended to be governed by other stations on larger ships would be routed through the bridge stations on an Intrepid.
 
Can someone explain why, in the image of the cover, the lettering and numbers on the nacelles are backwards or reversed imaged? Or am I imagining things?

Kevin
 
Possibly, but I felt the projected atmosphere of the two sets was also quite nicely different. TNG was about modernity and cutting edge, and so was quite stark and simple, but Voyager was more about family and home, so the bridge felt very complicated and comfortable, where the commanding officers even basically sat on a couch. I found that each set evoked its intended spirit quite nicely.

You thought the VGR bridge was more comfortable? Sheesh, remind me not to hire you to remodel my living room.

Years ago, I worked for a while at the Star Trek Federation Science exhibit when it came to my city. The exhibit was designed to evoke the feel of 24th-century Starfleet tech, with tons of monitor screens and animated graphics and engine hum and bleepy buttons and Majel Barrett computer announcements. And it drove me crazy. Partly it was because it had to be dark so the screens were visible; I'm one of those people who gets depressed without sufficient daylight. But it was a very stressful environment. Nothing comfortable about it. The TNG bridge looked more like a lounge than a control room -- all carpeting and comfy chairs and wood panelling and open space, with just a few small, unobtrusive consoles.

And one can imagine how a smaller crew on a smaller ship would necessitate bigger consoles, as a greater number of functions that tended to be governed by other stations on larger ships would be routed through the bridge stations on an Intrepid.

Doesn't wash. First off, the computer should be able to handle most of those functions. That was the idea behind TNG's minimalist design -- that computer technology was so advanced that it simply didn't require very many people to run the ship. So there wouldn't have been that many "other stations" to begin with.

Besides, it's a matter of design. Look at your laptop computer. Then look at a picture of a massive 1950s computer bank. Which one had more blinking lights and made more noises? The primitive one. The more advanced and powerful device is comparatively tiny, simple-looking, and unobtrusive. It's got nothing to do with how many people are doing the work. One guy on a networked laptop can control more systems than a dozen guys manning a bunch of old-style computer banks with tape reels and vacuum tubes, but the laptop still looks simpler.
 
Can someone explain why, in the image of the cover, the lettering and numbers on the nacelles are backwards or reversed imaged?
If I had to guess, it's because the nacelles are not supposed to have clearly identifiable registry numbers, and the artist never realized that all of fandom was going to be poring over every blessed detail of the image and jumping on the internets with cries of "O NOES TEH ENTERPRIZ IZ CRASHD OMGWTF!!!1!"

If I had to guess...
 
Can someone explain why, in the image of the cover, the lettering and numbers on the nacelles are backwards or reversed imaged?
If I had to guess, it's because the nacelles are not supposed to have clearly identifiable registry numbers, and the artist never realized that all of fandom was going to be poring over every blessed detail of the image and jumping on the internets with cries of "O NOES TEH ENTERPRIZ IZ CRASHD OMGWTF!!!1!"

If I had to guess...

His first time working with Trek?

Aaron McGuire
 
The TNG bridge looked more like a lounge than a control room -- all carpeting and comfy chairs and wood panelling and open space, with just a few small, unobtrusive consoles.
That may have been the design, but it didn't really come off that way on camera--the open space was mostly lost, and the chairs couldn't have been all that comfortable if the tactical officers weren't put off by not having one! ;)
 
Can someone explain why, in the image of the cover, the lettering and numbers on the nacelles are backwards or reversed imaged?
If I had to guess, it's because the nacelles are not supposed to have clearly identifiable registry numbers, and the artist never realized that all of fandom was going to be poring over every blessed detail of the image and jumping on the internets with cries of "O NOES TEH ENTERPRIZ IZ CRASHD OMGWTF!!!1!"

If I had to guess...

First, thanks for your statement about the fate of the E-E in Losing the Peace.

Maybe you should forward the link to this discussion to the cover designer. He should know that we care about every detail... :devil:

Another idea what the Sovereign class nacelles on this planet could mean: In Destiny Book 1 some captain sacrified his sovereign class ship and flew directly into a borg weapon beam directed onto some planet. The beam destroyed the ship, hit the planet and killed most of the people on it, they were talking about a few thousand survivors. Maybe the stardrive section of this sovereign class ship crashlanded on this planet and Picard/Worf are there to evacuate surviving people of that planet and maybe the ship.
 
Besides, it's a matter of design. Look at your laptop computer. Then look at a picture of a massive 1950s computer bank. Which one had more blinking lights and made more noises? The primitive one. The more advanced and powerful device is comparatively tiny, simple-looking, and unobtrusive. It's got nothing to do with how many people are doing the work. One guy on a networked laptop can control more systems than a dozen guys manning a bunch of old-style computer banks with tape reels and vacuum tubes, but the laptop still looks simpler.

Well, this is true, but also I have two computers: a laptop for carrying back and forth to work (I teach high school) and a desktop I use at home. The desktop has two very large monitors, and a case the usual size for a desktop, and that's the one I use when I have anything important to do because having two monitors greatly increases my flexibility when doing just about anything. To a certain extent, if I am doing one thing, a laptop is as good as a desktop, but if I'm doing 10, I'm noticeably and obviously more efficient with the greater desktop area. I have a hard time believing that a similar concept wouldn't apply, regardless of operating system.

And, in fact, as the volume necessary to house the computer's core components has decreased, computer screens have actually become LARGER over the past couple of decades, and more detailed and high resolution. Not the monitors, which have become thinner and lighter, but the 2D space of the screens themselves. My roommate, who does computer graphic design, has an ENORMOUS monitor almost three feet wide. I imagine that before I die that most of us will be using large, responsive touchscreens larger than Enterprise consoles just because if you're managing that much stuff at once, there has to literally be someplace to put every program or process you're using so you can see it. And given how much visual information they process on the show, having big screens to see it on, like my roommate's, makes clear intuitive sense. (I actually think the consoles on the Ent-E, for instance, are comically small.)

But if the consoles had fewer functions, or fewer simultaneous functions, then you'd want them to be smaller. Which is the only reason I can think of that Data has about 2 square feet of console, and Kim has about 8.
 
(I actually think the consoles on the Ent-E, for instance, are comically small.)

You know I have to agree with this, but at least the Helmsman and Ops Manager have larger panels than on the E-D.

In width, sure, but in height, they're like 6 inches of total viewable space! I have a hard time imagining that the Enterprise would never come across something that necessitated higher resolution than a youtube video.

ETA: ok, fine, they're a little bigger - http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/3/3282/theater_4.jpg - but the computer I have sitting on my desk is still already better.

But even if you don't agree with that, what in the hell could Troi possibly accomplish with this - http://plaza.ufl.edu/joec/images/picard_bridge_explosion.jpg
 
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That may have been the design, but it didn't really come off that way on camera--the open space was mostly lost, and the chairs couldn't have been all that comfortable if the tactical officers weren't put off by not having one! ;)

You don't want the tactical officer to be comfortable. You want the tactical officer to be alert.


Another idea what the Sovereign class nacelles on this planet could mean: In Destiny Book 1 some captain sacrified his sovereign class ship and flew directly into a borg weapon beam directed onto some planet. The beam destroyed the ship, hit the planet and killed most of the people on it, they were talking about a few thousand survivors. Maybe the stardrive section of this sovereign class ship crashlanded on this planet and Picard/Worf are there to evacuate surviving people of that planet and maybe the ship.

Or maybe it could mean that the cover is symbolic and does not represent an actual scene from the novel. In fact, didn't Bill already state earlier in the thread that that's exactly the case?


Well, this is true, but also I have two computers: a laptop for carrying back and forth to work (I teach high school) and a desktop I use at home. The desktop has two very large monitors, and a case the usual size for a desktop, and that's the one I use when I have anything important to do because having two monitors greatly increases my flexibility when doing just about anything.

But is your desktop covered in hundreds of multicolored blinky lights? Mine has two colored lights, only one of which blinks. There's also one non-blinky light on the monitor. And does your desktop make lots of bleepy noises every time you hit a key or click a mouse button? Mine doesn't.

And are your monitors built into a huge metal-and-plastic wall unit in your home? Or are they just sitting on a piece of wood or glass furniture?

And, in fact, as the volume necessary to house the computer's core components has decreased, computer screens have actually become LARGER over the past couple of decades, and more detailed and high resolution. Not the monitors, which have become thinner and lighter, but the 2D space of the screens themselves. My roommate, who does computer graphic design, has an ENORMOUS monitor almost three feet wide. I imagine that before I die that most of us will be using large, responsive touchscreens larger than Enterprise consoles just because if you're managing that much stuff at once, there has to literally be someplace to put every program or process you're using so you can see it. And given how much visual information they process on the show, having big screens to see it on, like my roommate's, makes clear intuitive sense.

To be sure. But within a decade, we'll be able to make such a screen be just part of the wall or window, becoming completely invisible when it's turned off. In fact, with recent advances in flexible screens, circuits, and chips, we'll be able to install computers in clothing or furniture or anywhere else. You could have all the most advanced computers and home video and gaming systems installed in your living room, but when they're turned off, it would look like there's no high technology there at all. Because it would be completely integrated into the space. It wouldn't be a bunch of big intrusive metallic boxes covered in blinky lights.

But if the consoles had fewer functions, or fewer simultaneous functions, then you'd want them to be smaller. Which is the only reason I can think of that Data has about 2 square feet of console, and Kim has about 8.

That's assuming the old-fashioned approach where there has to be a physically separate key or panel for each function. Think of it more like a programmable touch screen of the sort that's becoming available now, where you can call up any set of command operations on the same single screen. Any function you're not using at the moment can be minimized; what would be a whole big control panel in the old sci-fi console model could be reduced to a single icon, then expanded to fill the screen when you need it.


Come to think of it, though, I'm forgetting something important. Big consoles loaded with lights and buttons may be less advanced technologically, but that doesn't make them useless, especially in a spaceship's control room. I mean, consider the cockpit of the Space Shuttle, which is full of dozens of consoles with thousands of buttons and lights. And most of them aren't needed to operate the Shuttle. They're emergency backups for when the much simpler-looking, more streamlined computer control systems fail.

So I stand by what I said about the TNG bridge looking more futuristic than the VGR bridge. But futuristic isn't always better from a practical standpoint. It's possible that the Galaxy class went too far in embracing aesthetics over functional redundancy, that a cruder design with lots of buttons and lights and consoles is important to have as a backup system in case the high-tech stuff fails. Still, though, under normal circumstances, it should be possible to operate the ship without needing to use most of those consoles, just as with the Space Shuttle.
 
Naw, it's too close to the title of the upcoming Deanna Troi "autobiography" — Honey, I Blew the Klingon.

Dayton, if I get a mental image, you're a dead man... If I--

--whoops, there it is. All right, start looking over your shoulder! :klingon:

So has it been confirmed if the big E will actually bite the dust?

I don't know who's joshing and who's asking seriously anymore, so...

The Enterprise-E comes through LtP 100% intact -- far better than Mack left her at the end of Destiny. The cover image is not to be interpreted as conveying any plot specifics, other than the fact that Picard and Worf do appear in the book.

Worf and Picard are in the book??
Well, thanks a lot, Mr. Leisner...! :scream: ;)
 
The TNG bridge looked more like a lounge than a control room -- all carpeting and comfy chairs and wood panelling and open space, with just a few small, unobtrusive consoles.

And extremely uninteresting and like you said, not very much like a control
room... which is what it is. Human/Alien interaction with their enviroment
is part of the drama and intrigue. TNG was my favorite of the series but I
much more enjoyed TOS or ENT's set when it came to how technology was
shown and utilized onscreen. People standing, staring and talking at the
screens got a little old after a while on TNG.
 
So has it been confirmed if the big E will actually bite the dust?

I don't know who's joshing and who's asking seriously anymore, so...

The Enterprise-E comes through LtP 100% intact -- far better than Mack left her at the end of Destiny. The cover image is not to be interpreted as conveying any plot specifics, other than the fact that Picard and Worf do appear in the book.


Well that's fucking IT you have DESTROYED my CHILDHOOD and RAPED the ashes! I am SO TOTALLY going to boycott this novel! :scream:


...Ya know I can't even TYPE it with a straight face. :guffaw:
 
I didn't make it, and whoever did doesn't know me, since I can and do hold my liquor, and I've written porn as well as watched it :)


(And since I'm in a good mood today, I won't tell them to go and suck it long and hard for that "real writers" crack.)
 
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