Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyrus, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He is a Maiar, a lesser god-like being, the same as Sauron but less powerful. His original name (in the Havens) is Olorin, and he and 4 other Maiar are sent to M.E. by the Valar to oppose Sauron. They are known in M.E. as the Istari, or the wizards. There was Saruman, Mithrandir (Gandalf), Radaghast, and the two blue wizards who went east and didn't figure into the tale. Of the five, Mithrandir became the greatest and was always hearkened as most wise. After Sauron fell, he returned West to the Havens.

    All this info is buried in the Silmarillion.

    Possibly. Sauron was known to take many forms in the Second Age, some of which were beautiful and beguiling, to corrupt the hearts of the Numenoreans and convince them to violate the ban of the Valar and attempt to set foot in the Havens, where the race of men were forbidden to go.
     
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  2. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As for the show itself, I'll give it a watch, going in with lower expectations but hopefully optimistic. Obviously, they are going to have to tell it in a non-standard way since the Second Age lasts thousands of years, and only the Eldar (elves) are immortal.
     
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  3. Disposable_Ensign

    Disposable_Ensign Commander Red Shirt

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    At least they got the balrog right with no wings.
    Wizard implies magical human, but Gandalf was a Maia, which I find very similar to the Torah conception of an angel. See: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Maia for more information (Tolkien Gateway is better than the Fandom wiki, because it doesn't let stuff from the movie clog up the books and it has more info).
    It took me a minute to realise that was a pun not a mistake.
     
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  4. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And richer for it.
     
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  5. Disposable_Ensign

    Disposable_Ensign Commander Red Shirt

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    The Ainur and Eä are also immortal.
     
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  6. Jedi Marso

    Jedi Marso Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You are correct- I was speaking of the 'non-divine' inhabitants of M.E., primarily the elves, dwarves, humans, halflings, orcs, etc.
     
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  7. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was looking through the new character posters, and I hadn't noticed before that some of the costumes, especially for the characters from Numenor, have an almost Ancient Roman style to them. Which actually does kind of make sense, since this is set thousands of years before the Medieval Europe inspired LOTR.
     
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  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know all this. I was responding to the rejection of the Silmarillion-inclusive understanding of the character. ( And of course Gandalf is at the Havens at the end of ROTK. )

    I think it's been confirmed the images in question are not of Sauron, but by whom I have no idea, so I can't really say for certain. Besides, as you say, Annatar is supposed to be beautiful and beguiling. You don't get the elves on your side if you look like a shadier version of Shady.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  9. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Damn, I was hoping for some hot Hobbit and Dwarf action.
     
  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One of the characters in the new posters is The Stranger, and I'm assuming with sense they're that, he'll end up being someone important. Anyone have any theories about who he could be?
    Of course Sauron seems like the obvious choice. When did the Maiar come to Middle Earth? Because my other thought would be Gandalf, but I wasn't sure if he would be part of the era the show is set in.
     
  11. The Scrooge Doctor

    The Scrooge Doctor Bah humbug! Premium Member

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    Sauron was already there at the start of the Second Age because he fought alongside Morgoth in the First Age and went into hiding after Morgorth's defeat.

    Gandalf (as well as the rest of the Istari) doesn't arrive until well into the Third Age.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  12. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I totally see what you're saying there, and you're not wrong. It's been a far to slow a burn for many societies. But, if we go back a hundred years, we see the suffrage movement. Obviously not a "conquered" group of people, but definitely an under represented group. It's true that that civil rights movement really got the ball rolling, but still, that's 60 years ago.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I'm increasingly convinced that Meteor Man is one of the Blue Wizards, since Tolkien was playing with the idea that they actually came to Middle-earth in the Second Age. And since they're bringing in proto-Hobbits, I'm sure they couldn't resist including a Wizard.

    Hopefully he's Pallando, since that name is more fun to say.
     
  14. The Scrooge Doctor

    The Scrooge Doctor Bah humbug! Premium Member

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    Except, again, none of them arrived until the Third Age. There's very little about what Tolkien wrote about them and I don't think I ever saw anything suggesting that either of the Blue Wizards arriving in the Second Age. Only that they wandered off mission and went far into the east.
     
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  15. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You are utterly in error. There is nudity in Lord of the Rings. Both in Fellowship of the Ring, and in the Two Towers. And yes there is nudity in the Silmarillian and in other works of his, and none of it is of a sexual nature, but if filmed today would use an intimacy coach.
     
  16. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He changed that towards the end of his life.
     
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  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I personally prefer the idea that none of the Istari arrived until the Third Age, but his idea that the Blues came in the Second Age did come later in life. And, like I said, I don't think the people making this show could resist including a Wizard since it's a familiar concept.
     
  18. The Scrooge Doctor

    The Scrooge Doctor Bah humbug! Premium Member

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    Do you remember where that's written down? One of his letters?

    Fair enough. But I'm still skeptical.

    Especially since The Stranger is dressed in white. :p
     
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  19. Captain Kris Kringle Pike

    Captain Kris Kringle Pike Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One of his letters discusses possible failures, and starting "secret religions and cults." However, from "However, when Christopher Tolkien published the History of Middle Earth series, the "Peoples of Middle Earth" volume discussed it further:
    Here's a website that discusses it more.
     
  20. The Scrooge Doctor

    The Scrooge Doctor Bah humbug! Premium Member

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    Huh. I've certainly read that body of text more than once before but I don't recall the Second Age mentioned before.

    Memory is the first to go. :wah: