Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[Jedi Marso]

What is he then? He appears as roughly the same age in two stories set 77 years apart and literally returns from the dead. He's no normal mortal.

He is a Maiar, a lesser god-like being, the same as Sauron but less powerful. His original name (in the Havens) is Olorin, and he and 4 other Maiar are sent to M.E. by the Valar to oppose Sauron. They are known in M.E. as the Istari, or the wizards. There was Saruman, Mithrandir (Gandalf), Radaghast, and the two blue wizards who went east and didn't figure into the tale. Of the five, Mithrandir became the greatest and was always hearkened as most wise. After Sauron fell, he returned West to the Havens.

All this info is buried in the Silmarillion.

It's not Sauron. It's allegedly a

Spoiler

member of a cult of Morgoth.

Possibly. Sauron was known to take many forms in the Second Age, some of which were beautiful and beguiling, to corrupt the hearts of the Numenoreans and convince them to violate the ban of the Valar and attempt to set foot in the Havens, where the race of men were forbidden to go.

 

[Jedi Marso]

As for the show itself, I'll give it a watch, going in with lower expectations but hopefully optimistic. Obviously, they are going to have to tell it in a non-standard way since the Second Age lasts thousands of years, and only the Eldar (elves) are immortal.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

We have a new trailer!

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Aesthetically and atmospherically epic!

And Balrog!!!

As I said before, here's hoping the stories and characters live up to the gorgeous visuals.

At least they got the balrog right with no wings.

All you actually need to know is Gandalf = Wizard, and Wizard = weird powers and attributes, including either not aging or aging differently. Simple, and something you get just from reading the main books. Its not a complicated or confusing idea that a Wizard could be ageless (or close to it), and there was no other explanation needed, especially not a weird religious one.

Wizard implies magical human, but Gandalf was a Maia, which I find very similar to the Torah conception of an angel. See: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Maia for more information (Tolkien Gateway is better than the Fandom wiki, because it doesn't let stuff from the movie clog up the books and it has more info).

The audio version I have is this one:

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It took me a minute to realise that was a pun not a mistake.

 

[fireproof78]

Wizard implies magical human, but Gandalf was a Maia, which I find very similar to the Torah conception of an angel.

And richer for it.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

As for the show itself, I'll give it a watch, going in with lower expectations but hopefully optimistic. Obviously, they are going to have to tell it in a non-standard way since the Second Age lasts thousands of years, and only the Eldar (elves) are immortal.

The Ainur and Eä are also immortal.

 

[Jedi Marso]

The Ainur and Eä are also immortal.

You are correct- I was speaking of the 'non-divine' inhabitants of M.E., primarily the elves, dwarves, humans, halflings, orcs, etc.

 

[JD]

I was looking through the new character posters, and I hadn't noticed before that some of the costumes, especially for the characters from Numenor, have an almost Ancient Roman style to them. Which actually does kind of make sense, since this is set thousands of years before the Medieval Europe inspired LOTR.

 

[Set Harth]

He is a Maiar, a lesser god-like being, the same as Sauron but less powerful. His original name (in the Havens) is Olorin, and he and 4 other Maiar are sent to M.E. by the Valar to oppose Sauron. They are known in M.E. as the Istari, or the wizards. There was Saruman, Mithrandir (Gandalf), Radaghast, and the two blue wizards who went east and didn't figure into the tale. Of the five, Mithrandir became the greatest and was always hearkened as most wise. After Sauron fell, he returned West to the Havens.

All this info is buried in the Silmarillion.

I know all this. I was responding to the rejection of the Silmarillion-inclusive understanding of the character. ( And of course Gandalf is at the Havens at the end of ROTK. )

Possibly. Sauron was known to take many forms in the Second Age, some of which were beautiful and beguiling, to corrupt the hearts of the Numenoreans and convince them to violate the ban of the Valar and attempt to set foot in the Havens, where the race of men were forbidden to go.

I think it's been confirmed the images in question are not of Sauron, but by whom I have no idea, so I can't really say for certain. Besides, as you say, Annatar is supposed to be beautiful and beguiling. You don't get the elves on your side if you look like a shadier version of Shady.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I just want to point out one more time, that the show is only going to be TV-14, so whatever sex or nudity might be in it will be very tame.

Damn, I was hoping for some hot Hobbit and Dwarf action.

 

[JD]

One of the characters in the new posters is The Stranger, and I'm assuming with sense they're that, he'll end up being someone important. Anyone have any theories about who he could be?
Of course Sauron seems like the obvious choice. When did the Maiar come to Middle Earth? Because my other thought would be Gandalf, but I wasn't sure if he would be part of the era the show is set in.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Sauron was already there at the start of the Second Age because he fought alongside Morgoth in the First Age and went into hiding after Morgorth's defeat.

Gandalf (as well as the rest of the Istari) doesn't arrive until well into the Third Age.

 

[marillion]

There were atrocities committed by the Allied forces that have never been generally acknowledged although they are not secret either. It hasn't been the last century that the oppressed has had a voice, more like the last two decades.

I totally see what you're saying there, and you're not wrong. It's been a far to slow a burn for many societies. But, if we go back a hundred years, we see the suffrage movement. Obviously not a "conquered" group of people, but definitely an under represented group. It's true that that civil rights movement really got the ball rolling, but still, that's 60 years ago.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm increasingly convinced that Meteor Man is one of the Blue Wizards, since Tolkien was playing with the idea that they actually came to Middle-earth in the Second Age. And since they're bringing in proto-Hobbits, I'm sure they couldn't resist including a Wizard.

Hopefully he's Pallando, since that name is more fun to say.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Except, again, none of them arrived until the Third Age. There's very little about what Tolkien wrote about them and I don't think I ever saw anything suggesting that either of the Blue Wizards arriving in the Second Age. Only that they wandered off mission and went far into the east.

 

[mswood]

To me, not wanting to watch a LOTR product that needed an intimacy coach is a reasoned and rational response I could also point out it looks exactly like The Hobbit style/filming wise, aka really obvious green screen/digital shit, the costumes somehow look worse then the sets and Sauron literally looks like Eminem. There is also

Spoiler: Trailer

Also, there is no nudity in Hobbit or the trilogy, which is all that matters content wise in this case, but I guess he could have had pervy shit in The Silmarillion, its not like that collection of words is readable enough for most people to tell. You could tell me that The Silmarillian says Gandalf is a hyper evolved Hobbit from the future who went back in time to stop Sauron and I'd probably buy it (its not much more ridiculous then the actual backstory of the Wizards).

You are utterly in error. There is nudity in Lord of the Rings. Both in Fellowship of the Ring, and in the Two Towers. And yes there is nudity in the Silmarillian and in other works of his, and none of it is of a sexual nature, but if filmed today would use an intimacy coach.

 

[fireproof78]

Except, again, none of them arrived until the Third Age. There's very little about what Tolkien wrote about them and I don't think I ever saw anything suggesting that either of the Blue Wizards arriving in the Second Age. Only that they wandered off mission and went far into the east.

He changed that towards the end of his life.

 

[Skywalker]

Except, again, none of them arrived until the Third Age. There's very little about what Tolkien wrote about them and I don't think I ever saw anything suggesting that either of the Blue Wizards arriving in the Second Age. Only that they wandered off mission and went far into the east.

I personally prefer the idea that none of the Istari arrived until the Third Age, but his idea that the Blues came in the Second Age did come later in life. And, like I said, I don't think the people making this show could resist including a Wizard since it's a familiar concept.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

He changed that towards the end of his life.

Do you remember where that's written down? One of his letters?

I personally prefer the idea that none of the Istari arrived until the Third Age, but his idea that the Blues came in the Second Age did come later in life. And, like I said, I don't think the people making this show could resist including a Wizard since it's a familiar concept.

Fair enough. But I'm still skeptical.

Especially since The Stranger is dressed in white.

 

[fireproof78]

Do you remember where that's written down? One of his letters?

One of his letters discusses possible failures, and starting "secret religions and cults." However, from "However, when Christopher Tolkien published the History of Middle Earth series, the "Peoples of Middle Earth" volume discussed it further:

“No names are recorded for the two wizards. They were never seen or known in lands west of Mordor. The wizards did not come at the same time. Possibly Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast did, but more likely Saruman the chief (and already over mindful of this) came first and alone. Probably Gandalf and Radagast came together, though this has not yet been said. … The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed)
by Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath mentioning five was letting out a piece of private information.
“The ‘other two’ came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo [which name corresponds to Alatar and which to Pallando is not know]. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir-up rebellion … and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East … They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the East … who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have … outnumbered the West.”

Here's a website that discusses it more.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Huh. I've certainly read that body of text more than once before but I don't recall the Second Age mentioned before.

Memory is the first to go.