Lord of the Rings TV series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyrus, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not everyone’s cup of literary tea, but I would highly recommend everyone reads The Silmarilion, as well as The Unfinished Tales - at the very least. I personally have enjoyed both texts (especially the latter book).

    Getting a holistic overview of these (vast) periods of Middle-earth history / lore is well worth it, even when aspects contradict / supersede or remain ‘what-if’s’, or ‘paths not taken’
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2022
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  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love the LOTR trilogy and the Hobbit, I first read them all in elementary school and a bunch of times since then, but I'd have a better chance of building a working teleporter out of home appliances and duct tape then I would deciphering The Silmarillion. It was very obviously not written to be a novel or even a text book, hell it barely seems to be written in English. I think I got 10 pages into it, and that was probably on my third or fourth try. It is actively badly written in my opinion, but since Tolkien didn't make the decision to publish it I'm not going to blame him, he wrote something seemingly for himself then it got published as his estate obviously wanted more stuff to make money off of. To compare it to another somewhat complex book series, even the weirdest Dune book (which is probably God Emperor of Dune) is like a Dr. Seuss book compared to The Silmarillion.

    The Silmarillion, in my opinion, is probably best experienced through wiki reading or youtube video explanations if you must experience it, and I've barely even done that because even when "translated" basically nothing makes sense and the basic stories that can be figured out aren't really any good.
     
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  3. The Knappos

    The Knappos Captain Captain

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    I’ve only read it once, but I must be weird as I enjoyed The Silmarillion.
     
  4. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    The audiobook reading of The Silmarillion by Martin Shaw is very good. I had to skip the boring bits in the printed version to get to the end. However, I didn't have this problem with the audio version. I think I should sack my internal voice.
     
  5. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Silmarillion's issue, if there is one, is that it is more a history textbook of Middle-earth than anything else and it reads that way. It's a descriptive account of what happened but the reader never experiences the events through the point of view of any of the participants. Everything is matter-of-fact and external. So anyone going into it expecting a narrative like in The Hobbit or LOTR can end up confused, disappointed or even bored.
     
  6. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    I really enjoyed The Silmarillion, but I think I spent more time reading the index and appendix than the actual story itself. There are so many characters and locations I was always looking up who was who and then going over maps I printed out to see where they were. I'm looking forward to reading it again, but I definitely have to prepare myself both mentally and physically for what lies ahead :D
     
  7. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Silmarillion was the first of the novels I read (as part of a college class), and I didn't care for it at the time, since I didn't have the connections to the Lord of the Rings trilogy and I had only seen the old Hobbit cartoon a long time ago. It read like The Bible. Mostly because that is what it is, the Bible for Middle Earth.
     
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  8. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    That's why I outsource. :D
     
  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The biggest problem with the Silmarillion is that it's mostly brief summaries of longer, and potentially very interesting tales, Tolkien never got around to (re-)write after the Lord of the Rings.
    The earliest versions (which still aren't nowhere near the length or detail as the Lord of the Rigns) of those tales as recorded in the Book of Lost Tales are actually so much more lively and engaging. I especially prefer that early version of the Tale of Tenuviel (mostly, not a fan of Beren being a Noldo instead of a human or them fighting a giant, evil kitty-cat) to the point that if I were to make a movie about Luthien and Beren I'd borrow a lot of things from that earlier version.
    But unfortunately that's also a very early version of Middle Earth that's impossible to reconcile with the version in the Lord of the Rings (for example the Dwarves are an evil people of unknown origin, there's fairies and leprechauns, the Valar are much more obviously based on the Nordic Gods, and there's some very odd world building in relation to human souls and their fate after death) .
     
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  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hope to eventually give it a try, but I'm glad to know this beforehand, since I'd been expecting a regular novel and would have been confused when it wasn't that.
     
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  11. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Quoter of Quotes Premium Member

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    Wow, I'd forgotten a lot of that!

    Or blocked it out... :D
     
  12. Captain_Nick

    Captain_Nick Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did you chaps know that a portion of the Silmarillion has been turned into an opera?

    One hesitates to provide the link, today, because it was a Russian theatre group who composed and performed it. But those who are interested can find 'Finrod: A rock opera' on the youtubes.

    It was a unique and entertaining take on the imprisonment and death of Finrod and Beren.
     
  13. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So I just read some rumours and, it seems really interesting and...can I say something honest for a moment?

    I think this show's backstory for Galadriel, with her being a commander of armies in the Second Age and all actually in many ways works better for the character both as seen in the LoTR and the description of her during the Rebellion of the Noldor than what she actually did in canon during the First and Second Ages.

    Regardless of current events and general political things, Russia has an interesting relationship with Tolkien's works.
    Like, because Russian copywright is extremely lax, there is, for example, a novel-length, fan-written version of the Tale of Luthien and Beren commercially available there that's treated as official canon by many fans there.
    I can't speak about its quality because, even if it was available in English or my country I would never order it, but it's interesting nonetheless.
    Imagine if that was possible in the West and we'd have, for example, a version of Luthien and Beren written by Neil Gaiman or something.
     
  14. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    The description of what Galadriel did in the Second Age is very sketchy. In The Silmarillion, she isn't described as performing many actions apart from giving birth to Celebrían (before Sauron rose again), setting up camp in Lothlórien after travelling through Khazad-dûm, counselling Celebrimbor and receiving the ring of water, Nenya, from him. I suspect Celebrían might not feature at all in this adaptation or her birth might be a lot later. The warrior elf princess thing is a complete invention, isn't it? Perhaps it'll be a phase she goes through only to renounce it before receiving her ring.
     
  15. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As I said, I think it fits with the description of her druing the Flight of the Noldor:

    That paints a very fiery picture of Galadriel and then, in the Silmarillion she goes on to do...nothing of the sort. First she settles down in Doriath and takes no part in the Siege of Angband, and then she and Celeborn move to Lorien, which I guess she (eventually) came to co-rule with Celeborn. But still to me it always seemed she ought to have done a lot more and be more active after that description in the Flight of the Noldor.

    Of course, depending on various other versions she travelled alone from Beleriand to Lorien (and met Celeborn there), founded Eregion and ruled it until she was ousted by Celebrimbor on behest of Sauron and/or left Valinor by herself (with Celeborn, whom she met there in that version), but that's not part of the published Silmarillion. And in the most passive version she didn't even get to rule Lorien until some 1900 years into the Third Age.

    So I think her being a leader of Elven armies is more in line with how she is described in the passage I quoted. Of course it would be more fitting for her during the First Age, but well, it's a show about the Second Age.
    And in Tolkiens later writings he specified that female elves could be just as capable fighters as male ones if they so chose and that there were female Elves who fight in battles. He just didn't get around to implement it into the stories.
    Though in at least one version of the Kinslaying of Alqualonde Galadriel actually IS mentioned as fighting, against Feanor and his forces, to protect the Teleri.
     
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  16. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really care what they make up so long as it's interesting in terms of character development, indicating how and why she and Celeborn eventually hid themselves away for thousands of years in Lórien, protected by Nenya. They were forbidden from returning to Valinor so some examination of that prohibition on them would be appropriate.
     
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  17. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh definitely, it would be very interesting if they show the transformation from proud elf warrior to hidden protector of Lorien and what event(s) led to that transformation! Assuming they do it well, of course.
     
  18. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    As part of Empire's big exclusive issue on the series, the showrunners have reportedly have a five seasons already planned out, including what the final shot will look like.

    Telling a whole new story in the Second Age of Middle-earth, Prime Video’s streaming series began with its storytellers – including showrunner JD Payne and Patrick McKay, along with executive producer and director JA Bayona – cooking up a full beginning-to-end story. It’s about the destination as well as the journey, and The Rings Of Power is ready to take us there and back again. “We even know what our final shot of the last episode is going to be,” Payne teases to Empire in our world-exclusive cover story. “The rights that Amazon bought were for a 50-hour show. They knew from the beginning that was the size of the canvas – this was a big story with a clear beginning, middle and end. There are things in the first season that don’t pay off until Season 5.”

    Across those five seasons, The Rings Of Power will weave a story of Elves, Dwarves, Harfoots and more set against an epic backdrop of major events from the history of Middle-earth – from the forging of the rings, to the rise of Sauron. If the individual plot threads are new, the outline is straight from the source. “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations,” Payne explains. “In his letters [particularly in one to his publisher], Tolkien talked about wanting to leave behind a mythology that ‘left scope for other minds and hands, wielding the tools of paint, music and drama.’ We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

    Get ready for a show, then, that brings fresh ideas, perspectives, characters and more to our screens in a world we’ve long loved – but all in keeping with what its original creator set out. “The pressure would drive us insane if we didn’t feel like there was a story here that didn’t come from us. It comes from a bigger place,” says McKay. “It came from Tolkien and we’re just the stewards of it. We trust those ideas so deeply, because they’re not ours. We’re custodians, at best.” It’s always been clear in the world of The Lord Of The Rings – if you’re going to climb up a mountain that steep with a burden that heavy, you can still make it with the right Fellowship.​
     
  19. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Final shot is obviously Sauron putting on the ring.
     
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  20. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    Not this?
    [​IMG]