Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyrus, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Actually reading the reviews seems that it's more people that consider themselves Tolkien nerds, but don't actually know that much. Early on it was the racists, but they've stopped watching.
     
    Hartzilla2007 likes this.
  2. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    So I'll ask the tolkien experts here: did the show blatantly contradict tolkien, and do you feel that it irrevocably ruin galadriels character?
     
  3. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    You can't ruin a character from another Medium. The show isn't book canon.
     
    The Nth Doctor and Turtletrekker like this.
  4. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    Exactly. Neither were the Peter Jackson movies or the animated movies.
     
    The Nth Doctor and saddestmoon like this.
  5. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Finally got to see the finale, and my thoughts are pretty much as they have been throughout the series...not terrible, but a big missed opportunity, with lots of shallow-level dialogue which comes across as rough-draft level in places (like the bullshit discussion between Celebrimbor and Halbrand regarding smithing). I do give the series some credit that it finally made me feel something for the Nori/Stranger subplot at the last minute, though I found it weird that we completely dropped Arondir/Bronwyn/Theo until next season (but got more of Numenor, even though it seemed entirely gratuitous.

    My main issue with the series though is so much of it seemed to ultimately be constructed around a J.J. Abrams style "mystery box" around who Sauron was, but ultimately the reveal was the most obvious character. It was strangely identical to Amazon's Wheel of Time, which for some reason focused so much more on "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" than the original book did. A good story doesn't rest on a mystery, it rests on compelling character drama, which I feel was (mostly) absent from this series, since it's much more plot-driven writing than anything. They did a great job with some characters, like Elrond and Durin (why no dwarfs in the finale either?) but they failed so hard with Galadriel.
     
  6. wayoung

    wayoung Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Location:
    wayoung
    Well, it was better than Wheel of Time, which I gave up on after the third episode. But not so much so that I care about watching the second season.

    (For those talking differences from books, Amazon doesn't have *all* the rights, so they *have* to change the events and characters they don't have the rights to)
     
    Asbo Zaprudder likes this.
  7. Kerock

    Kerock Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    I liked it - glad it was made - and won't bash it.
     
    TedShatner10 and crookeddy like this.
  8. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    Asbo Zaprudder
    That Amazon didn't realise that they were going to piss off the Tolkien purists is a sign that they don't understand the almost religious zealotry of that fandom. Even I, who has some rusty knowledge of the ledendarium and likes to believe I can distinguish between an entertainment TV series and what is really important, was annoyed by some of the adaptation choices. In the end I decided, screw it, it's just disposable fantasy fluff escapism and not worth sweating about. We know the end point so all Amazon can do is to try to make the path to it worth taking anyone's time to pay attention.
     
  9. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Location:
    Behind Enemy Lines
    Having found the show a bit so-so in places I really enjoyed the last episode. Things happened. The Halbrand/Stranger rug pull actually caught me by surprise. I think they did a good job of making Halbrand the obvious choice for Sauron and then striving to make you believe he wasn't (while doing the reverse for the Stranger) and as someone with limited Tolkien knowledge (read the Hobbit at school, seen the Jackson films, done a bit of table top wargaming) it seems pretty clear that the stranger is Gandalf (that's my average chap on the Clapham omnibus opinion). The "Follow your nose" line seems to confirm it.

    I watched the finale Saturday morning and then Saturday night I watched Saint Maud again, and crikey Clark is a very good actor.

    I'm definitely in for a second season, and I've even started to warm to the harfoots, but I would like it if they trimmed the run time a little as they do go on a bit!
     
    saddestmoon likes this.
  10. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Yes the runtimes of hod and rop are killing me! A movie a week really affects my add lol edit: sorry for all the tlas.
     
  11. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    Florida
    I didn't get that impression. Like, "Who's the secret Cylon?" was a big background element of Battlestar Galactica, but if it weren't for fan speculation and behind-the-scenes interviews, I don't think it would've occurred to me that one of the existing characters had to be Sauron in disguise. There was no paranoia on the part of the characters, everyone seemed pretty confident that they'd know Sauron when they saw him. Where's Sauron, sure, but not who's Sauron.

    ("I'll do you one better, why is Sauron?")
     
  12. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Oh thank god that the old guy with the Hobbits turned out to be Gandalf after all. It's still on the nose that Hobbits were the first ones to meet him and help him a long, but not quite as much as it would have been if he had been Sauron.And it does establishes his interest in and bond with Hobbits.

    As for Halbrand. Well it makes sense and I thought the actor did a good chop with shifting from Halbrand to Sauron. I also thought him tempting Galadriel (and using part of the words she would later say during her last temptation when Fordo offers her the ring in Lorien) was very well done, and made a lot of sense.
    In book canon Galadriel is called the "greatest of the women among the Eldar" (I assume Tolkien meant the Eldar who actually went to Aman, because otherwise you could pose an easy counter-argument with Luthien) so if Sauron had managed to get her to his side, he would have had someone who's powerful, but not powerful enough to challenge him, and someone who could have brought at least some the Elves to his side without a fight. Since Sauron is a Maia it would make sense that he'd look for powerful Elves to become his commanders, close servants, vassals etc., since other Maiar are both in short supply and, theoretically, could rise to challenge him.
    As for the designs of the rings; that's actually how I imagined them to look when I read the books. I thought, while pretty, Nenya was a bit over-designed in the movies, with the silver flower being put above the diamond gem, the most prominent feature of one of the Elven Rings should be their gem, after all.
    What I'm a bit confused about is where the Seven and the Nine are supposed to come from in this version? Is Celebrimbor just going to make them now? In book canon all 19 Rings were originally supposed to be used by Elves, the famous poem (Three for the Elven Kings, under the sky etc.) was only made up later after Sauron had managed to seize the Seven and the Nine and gave them to Dwarves and Humans.
     
    Commander Troi likes this.
  13. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    Asbo Zaprudder
    The Maia named Mairon (the admirable one), later called Sauron (the abhorred one), was a thought - a fragment of Eru Ilúvatar's mind, who partook in the Music of the Ainur (Ainulindalë). So Eru knows.
     
    David cgc likes this.
  14. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    東京
    I'm finally caught up on all episodes. The show never really had my attention and it's been pretty much the same since the beginning, slow moving plot to bring us to a very minor conclusion for the first season with 4 more seasons of what I imagine will be the same. If this wasn't LOTRs related I wouldn't have watched it and definitely wouldn't have kept up with it. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they were fans of the films and books and were as curious as me to see it through.
    On the plus side, it is a very pretty looking show and I like that it feels visually (in design) very much like the movies. Unfortunately, that's not enough.
     
    Asbo Zaprudder likes this.
  15. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    Asbo Zaprudder
    Yes, three long feature films in length and perhaps enough content to fill a single movie. This season is not something I'm ever going to watch again. Totally disposable, I'm afraid...
     
    Saul likes this.
  16. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Ultimately, all the Harfoot stuff was completely pointless, other than perhaps giving us a "fakeout" (which was completely unconvincing) regarding who Sauron was for a few minutes.

    The show would have been better off without its inclusion. If they felt the need to actually film it, it could have been tightened up into a companion movie to serve as an "interqual" between Seasons 1 and 2 to help establish The Stranger.
     
  17. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    And even that fakeout was less "wouldn't it be interesting if this was Sauron" and more "is this show stupid enough to make this guy Sauron?"
     
  18. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    This show has the same issues I had with the movies. It feels both too long and very rushed. So if they wanted to be cinematic, I guess mission accomplished?

    Are people enjoying the music? I am a fan of McReary but in a situation where he is being compared to Howard Shore he doesn't seem to stack up.
     
  19. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spatial anomaly
    To each their own. The Harfoots were by far my favorite parts of the show. So what if they were mostly removed from the rest of the plot (for now)?
     
    saddestmoon and Turtletrekker like this.
  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    What do you mean "so what"? It's bad storytelling if you are telling 2 completely unrelated stories for no reason.

    And I say this as a fan of this show.
     
    eschaton likes this.