Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??

[Jeyl]

At worst he turned a blind eye to assuage his own professional and ethical misgivings and indirectly condemned an entire alien civilization to eventual extinction. He was complicit in the eventual disaster as an observer who refused to become directly involved but not the guilty party that caused that society's demise.

Archer turning a blind eye would only apply if he received their call for help and ignored it. What Archer did was acknowledge their call for help, learn about what was wrong with them and, this is a big one here, DEVELOPED A CURE.

The moment they had the cure was the moment they became a party that's responsible for their demise. Whether this species lived or died was now fully within their power, and Archer's choice was to let Valakians die out.

He refused to help due to a society not being warp capable or ready to join the interstellar community.

And the reasoning behind those factors are what exactly? The Valakians were certainly more developed as a species than Humanity was before they developed warp technology, and they had just come out of their third world war, lived in broken down huts in the mountains and only developed warp technology because some drunk did it because of greed and lust. And what did that do for Humanity in the end?

Troi: It unites humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realise they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war. They'll all be gone within the next fifty years.​

Sex and money dude.

 

[Jeyl]

He might get a medal. Do you think the fact it was his (Lorca's) own crew, those entrusted to him personally, factors into his ethics and indeed Starfleets? He didn't sacrifice himself or let someone else make that choice for him.

If Star Trek Discovery really wants to be Star Trek, his actions may not be as set-in-stone as one might think.

 

[EnderAKH]

Picard is guilty of the same thing. He killed any crew member captured by the Borg to prevent them from being converted to Borg, a fate he considered worse than death. Lorca killed his crew to prevent them from being EATEN by Klingons. I see precious little difference other than scale.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Picard is guilty of the same thing. He killed any crew member captured by the Borg to prevent them from being converted to Borg, a fate he considered worse than death. Lorca killed his crew to prevent them from being EATEN by Klingons. I see precious little difference other than scale.

Picard is also responsible for the deaths of thousands of Federation citizens during the Borg attack of 2373 by not using hugh to introduce the virus that could have wiped out the collective. It also allowed the Borg to continue assimilating countless cultures across the galaxy. Apparently his morals were worth more than other people's lives. Admiral Nechayev was right to discipline him for his decision.

 

[Refuge]

Picard is guilty of the same thing. He killed any crew member captured by the Borg to prevent them from being converted to Borg, a fate he considered worse than death. Lorca killed his crew to prevent them from being EATEN by Klingons. I see precious little difference other than scale.

How come Lorca didn't kill himself when he was captured by Klingons? There are ways.. He killed his own crew but gave himself a fighting chance.

 

[EnderAKH]

How come Lorca didn't kill himself when he was captured by Klingons? There are ways.. He killed his own crew but gave himself a fighting chance.

THAT is a question I expect to be answered in a future episode or season of this serialized show. It is not an answer I require right now, and I am perfectly ok waiting. If it never gets answered, then we can talk about that. I feel like that's like asking after the pilot of Lost, "Wow, look at how pissy Jack is about his Dad. What an awful son," when it took 6 years to explore the relationship between Christian and Jack.

 

[Refuge]

THAT is a question I expect to be answered in a future episode or season of this serialized show. It is not an answer I require right now, and I am perfectly ok waiting. If it never gets answered, then we can talk about that. I feel like that's like asking after the pilot of Lost, "Wow, look at how pissy Jack is about his Dad. What an awful son," when it took 6 years to explore the relationship between Christian and Jack.

Maybe but the scenario is a moment that's past. Lorca was in captivity by the Klingons the moment to sacrifice himself is not yet to come, but one already shown.

Oh well, what is to come is possibly a fuller justification of the dead crew situation.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There's no evidence that Klingons would eat their enemies when they aren't starving and running out of food.

It's not clear what happened on Lorca's ship but it strikes me as possibly more of a Pegasus situation.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe but the scenario is a moment that's past. Lorca was in captivity by the Klingons the moment to sacrifice himself is not yet to come, but one already shown.

Oh well, what is to come is possibly a fuller justification of the dead crew situation.

Or consequences. We simply don't know.

 

[EnderAKH]

There's no evidence that Klingons would eat their enemies when they aren't starving and running out of food.

Kor: We found T'nag's body... by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him? No one could say for certain. So... we cut out his heart, and all three of us feasted on it together.

 

[The Librarian]

Kor: We found T'nag's body... by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him? No one could say for certain. So... we cut out his heart, and all three of us feasted on it together.

And of course the entire thing with the Albino, where multiple people asked Jadzia if she was really sure she wanted to rip out a guy's heart and eat it in front of him, which she agreed was definitely the plan.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Kor: We found T'nag's body... by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him? No one could say for certain. So... we cut out his heart, and all three of us feasted on it together.

The best thing about that scene is that everyone just shrugs it off and Jadzia makes a joke out of it 'it was a big heart' and then everybody laughs. Obviously no one in the 24th century gives a shit about Klingon cannibalism.

 

[Prax]

Kor: We found T'nag's body... by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him? No one could say for certain. So... we cut out his heart, and all three of us feasted on it together.

And of course the entire thing with the Albino, where multiple people asked Jadzia if she was really sure she wanted to rip out a guy's heart and eat it in front of him, which she agreed was definitely the plan.

The best thing about that scene is that everyone just shrugs it off and Jadzia makes a joke out of it 'it was a big heart' and then everybody laughs. Obviously no one in the 24th century gives a shit about Klingon cannibalism.

Okay, I've got to stop you guys. Did Kor eat his enemies heart? Maybe. Probably not. You're taking the scene out of context. Kor tells tall tales. As he tells his story, everyone is captivated, and the ds9ers are scoffing. Quark, Odo, Bashir, etc, don't understand this type of history/myth/legend/storytelling, and view it through a literalists lens. Worf gives us some dialogue about Davy Crockett to convey the notion that "It does not matter whether it is factually true, just whether you believe it." or something to that effect. When Jadzia says "Big Heart" she is effectively rolling her eyes at his whole story. This is part of Kor's character. Here's the tale:

"Walls of fire on one side, rivers of lava on the other. We snaked our way through the hot, smoldering canyon, our skin so parched and blistered it was thick as armour. Kang and Koloth and I had set out with forty legions and now only we three remained to take on T'nag's army...

...Chanting a battle cry Koloth attacked their flank his eyes bulging with hate and revenge. It was a magnificent sight. A disruptor in one hand and his bat'leth in the other, I saw him kill two dozen men. I'll never forget...

...Kang took the high ground and, keeping the three suns to his back, he forced the enemy to fight him against the blinding light...

...Who gets the credit is of no import. What matters is this, in the end the mountainside was covered with dead so that not a square metre of ground could be seen. We found T'nag's body by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him, no one could say for certain. So we cut out his heart and all three of us feasted on it together."

Here's another tall tale from Kor(from Once More Unto The Breach)
"Well, there's not much to tell really. The battle was over almost before the Federation knew it had begun. I commanded the first division from the Klothos, one of the old D Five cruisers. Kang commanded the second division. Now, you must remember that in those days, the cloaking device was a new piece of technology. There were only a handful of engineers in the Imperial Fleet who knew how to operate them. Before we left Chronos, I spent three days in the engine room taking the device apart with my bare hands and then putting it back together again. Now this would come in handy later in the battle, as you'll see..."

 

[Nerys Myk]

All tales have a kernel of truth.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Okay, I've got to stop you guys. Did Kor eat his enemies heart? Maybe. Probably not. You're taking the scene out of context. Kor tells tall tales. As he tells his story, everyone is captivated, and the ds9ers are scoffing. Quark, Odo, Bashir, etc, don't understand this type of history/myth/legend/storytelling, and view it through a literalists lens. Worf gives us some dialogue about Davy Crockett to convey the notion that "It does not matter whether it is factually true, just whether you believe it." or something to that effect. When Jadzia says "Big Heart" she is effectively rolling her eyes at his whole story. This is part of Kor's character. Here's the tale:

"Walls of fire on one side, rivers of lava on the other. We snaked our way through the hot, smoldering canyon, our skin so parched and blistered it was thick as armour. Kang and Koloth and I had set out with forty legions and now only we three remained to take on T'nag's army...

...Chanting a battle cry Koloth attacked their flank his eyes bulging with hate and revenge. It was a magnificent sight. A disruptor in one hand and his bat'leth in the other, I saw him kill two dozen men. I'll never forget...

...Kang took the high ground and, keeping the three suns to his back, he forced the enemy to fight him against the blinding light...

...Who gets the credit is of no import. What matters is this, in the end the mountainside was covered with dead so that not a square metre of ground could be seen. We found T'nag's body by the river, its waters red with blood. Which of us had slain him, no one could say for certain. So we cut out his heart and all three of us feasted on it together."

Here's another tall tale from Kor(from Once More Unto The Breach)
"Well, there's not much to tell really. The battle was over almost before the Federation knew it had begun. I commanded the first division from the Klothos, one of the old D Five cruisers. Kang commanded the second division. Now, you must remember that in those days, the cloaking device was a new piece of technology. There were only a handful of engineers in the Imperial Fleet who knew how to operate them. Before we left Chronos, I spent three days in the engine room taking the device apart with my bare hands and then putting it back together again. Now this would come in handy later in the battle, as you'll see..."

Or it could have been that Kor did in fact eat a dude's heart and no one cares because it's the 24th century and there is cultural tolerance. I don't judge Kor eating the heart of his enemy negatively. Plenty of ancient human societies practiced ritualised cannibalism during battle, religious ceremonies and possibly when preparing the dead for burial. I can understand the Klingons wanting to eat the heart of a powerful enemy after defeating them battle as some part of rite considering how ritualised their society was.

 

[Vger23]

Or it could have been that Kor did in fact eat a dude's heart and no one cares because it's the 24th century and there is cultural tolerance. I don't judge Kor eating the heart of his enemy negatively. Plenty of ancient human societies practiced ritualised cannibalism during battle, religious ceremonies and possibly when preparing the dead for burial. I can understand the Klingons wanting to eat the heart of a powerful enemy after defeating them battle as some part of rite considering how ritualised their society was.

Lorca is probably a cannibal. Because he left Mudd behind and...you know...is mean and likes war and stuff.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Lorca is probably a cannibal. Because he left Mudd behind and...you know...is mean and likes war and stuff.

Lorca is literally hitler

 

[Vger23]

Lorca is literally hitler

He's awful!!! War crimes and like....just MEAN and stuff. And he doesn't give speeches about humanity and Starfleet and stuff. LORCA IZ TEH SUX!!1!1

#notmycaptain #luvpicardjaneway

 

[Agony_Boothb]

He's awful!!! War crimes and like....just MEAN and stuff. And he doesn't give speeches about humanity and Starfleet and stuff. LORCA IZ TEH SUX!!1!1

#notmycaptain #luvpicardjaneway

He doesn't give speeches about gazelles either. #notmycaptain

 

[Prax]

Or it could have been that Kor did in fact eat a dude's heart and no one cares because it's the 24th century and there is cultural tolerance. I don't judge Kor eating the heart of his enemy negatively. Plenty of ancient human societies practiced ritualised cannibalism during battle, religious ceremonies and possibly when preparing the dead for burial. I can understand the Klingons wanting to eat the heart of a powerful enemy after defeating them battle as some part of rite considering how ritualised their society was.

I don't know, but regarding Kor: Did he eat his enemies heart? Maybe, but no one believes him.

"The blood was to the horse's bridle"