Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??

[Rich]

Chill buddy. I'm just trying to say that the Star Trek approach would get you killed. Look at DS9 they won the war because Sisko tricked the romulans into joining a side that killed their senator. Without them the war was lost.

Also I do not think that wars are won by rogues in reality at all. But look at how World War 2 was ended, with a bomb atomizing thousands of innocent people. That is not moral and whoever made that choice had the guts to make an unpopular decision. It was a choice made on numbers by the way.

Why do so many people like to make these tough-sounding, would-be pragmatic statements about how wars are "won" and what hard-gained experience do all you steely-eyed realists bring to bear on such declarations?

You all general officers?

Here's one for you: real wars are not won by rogue ship commanders who ignore orders from the strategists and officers who are directing the course of battles and campaigns.

Yet, that's the kind of character that Star Trek routinely celebrates.

 

[mos6507]

I'm just trying to say that the Star Trek approach would get you killed.

Trek VI suggests diplomacy and burying the hatchet does in fact work in the end.

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We know that during this time period there will not be a final peace treaty but supposedly Trek VI is a "jumping off point" for Discovery. It looks like we won't know what that truly means until the end.

 

[XCV330]

Chill buddy. I'm just trying to say that the Star Trek approach would get you killed. Look at DS9 they won the war because Sisko tricked the romulans into joining a side that killed their senator. Without them the war was lost.

They won the war to due to a variety of factors, including Sisko's manipulation, the Section 31 virus, Starfleet being able to produce a crapload of ships and crew them, and the Klingons finally fighting alongside the Federation.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I think it can be both eh?

I would hate to see Michael back in the captains chair, Saru? yes. I think the most interesting outcome would be Michael somewhat endeared to Lorca, and Saru coming to the conclusion that he need to be removed.

Or, Michael convincing Saru of this, and he being removed. Or, the Dr. Removing him and Saru being captain.

Either way it wouldn't make much sense for Michael to be the captain.

 

[Mudd]

Chill buddy. I'm just trying to say that the Star Trek approach would get you killed.

Chill buddy. I'm just trying to say that the Star Trek approach would get you killed. Look at DS9 they won the war because Sisko tricked the romulans into joining a side that killed their senator. Without them the war was lost.

None of that ever happened, of course. You're talking about a made-up war fought with ray-guns and spaceships. It comes out exactly the way that the writers decide that it will.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Why do so many people like to make these tough-sounding, would-be pragmatic statements about how wars are "won" and what hard-gained experience do all you steely-eyed realists bring to bear on such declarations?

You all general officers?

Here's one for you: real wars are not won by rogue ship commanders who ignore orders from the strategists and officers who are directing the course of battles and campaigns.

Yet, that's the kind of character that Star Trek routinely celebrates.

You aren't wrong, but we aren't talking about real life, we're talking within context of this particular fantasy world. Also, Rich does have a point even in the real world.

Nah it's definitely the Klingons, Lorca is just the guy with the stones to fight them properly. You can't be a moral person and bring the results that win wars at the same time.

Most of the wars throughout history that have been won, have done so while casting aside what we would consider modern moral sensibilities.

 

[Longinus]

None of that ever happened, of course. You're talking about a made-up war fought with ray-guns and spaceships. It comes out exactly the way that the writers decide that it will.

Indeed. If the writers want to tell a story about how horrible deeds are justified, they can write a situation where that seems to make sense, and if they wanted to tell as story where such deeds ultimately lead to your undoing, they can write a situation where that makes sense.

If 'In the Pale Moonlight' had been a TNG episode, it would have been about Picard foiling the conspiracy and saving Vreenak, thus gaining his trust.

 

[Thefallguy]

I recently came to the conclusion, that Lorca has to be in season 2 as a main character. And that’s for one reason:

Spoiler: Spoiler for 2nd novel

He and Philippa Georgiou are the only two characters that are featured in the 2nd tie-in novel, that will come out in February, after Season 1 has aired. They wouldn’t put out a Discovery novel (which are actually approved by the writers room) without any actual, living Discovery characters, wouldn’t they?

 

[Solariabsg25]

I'm surprised they(or he) defiled Georgiou like that. She died a warrior. The Klingons twice dishonored themselves. The first was when that other ship let the Shinzou fall into the asteroid field.

Edit: Actually thrice. T'kuma agreed to a ceasefire, and then decloaked(again?) and did something to the admiral's space ship.

As Worf said in Way Of the Warrior after he'd warned that cloaked Klingon ships may be lying in wait to ambush rescuers who came for the survivors of the wrecked Cardassian vessels - "There is nothing more honourable than victory."

I'm wondering if Lorca may have been a bit more "Starfleety" at the time of the Buran's destruction, and has in fact changed to be more hard and ruthless in his pursuit of victory, blaming the loss of his crew on him not having such a hard edge? Cornwall stated that he has changed, perhaps it's this she's commenting on?

 

[Refuge]

Indeed. If the writers want to tell a story about how horrible deeds are justified, they can write a situation where that seems to make sense, and if they wanted to tell as story where such deeds ultimately lead to your undoing, they can write a situation where that makes sense.

I'm finding it difficult to find the sense though.. The sense in a scene where for example the Admiral confronts Lorca and says something to the tune of.. but you passed your psych tests? Gosh, you tricked us. You killed your crew, we gave you another one. It has been written that way but it is weak by not being plausible.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm finding it difficult to find the sense though.. The sense in a scene where for example the Admiral confronts Lorca and says something to the tune of.. but you passed your psych tests? Gosh, you tricked us. You killed your crew, we gave you another one. It has been written that way but it is weak by not being plausible.

I've read about stranger situations.