Lorca: Fans Will Have To Adjust

[Jackson_Roykirk]

...If we go by that logic we don't have canon years for TNG and probably other shows outside of ENT..

We can get very close with clues spoken onscreen throughout the franchise.

In an episode of Voyager, Icheb said that Kirk's 5-year mission ended in 2270.

Icheb:
"... in the year 2270, Kirk completed his historic five year mission and one of the greatest chapters in Starfleet history came to a close. A new chapter began when Kirk regained command of the Enterprise."

So that gives us a date for TOS. In TNG "Encounter at Farpoint", Data reminds Dr. McCoy that he is 137 years old. From that, and from approximating McCoy's age in TOS (say maybe 45 to 50 years old, give or take, during the five-year mission), then we can get a pretty good idea that TNG began 87 to 90 years after Kirk's first five year mission -- so probably about 2360-ish.

I'm not sure if anything Dax had said onscreen in her reminiscences about McCoy could tighten that estimate up a bit.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yes we do. In TNG's "The Neutral Zone" Data stated the year specifically as 2364:
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/126.htm

yeah, but what about the other seasons?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Math?

 

[Noname Given]

yeah, but what about the other seasons?

What about them? TNG and ALL the 24th century shows went forward at the same pace (even the stardates were consistent.) So TNG Season 2 was 2365; Season 3 was 2366...etc.

 

[BillJ]

yeah, but what about the other seasons?

This question confuses me...

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

yeah, but what about the other seasons?

in "All Good Things", after Q "transported" Picard to the courtroom seen in "Encounter at Farpoint", Picard said to Q "The last time that I stood here was seven years ago".

So we know that at least between the first and last TNG episode, their time passed the same rate our time passed (i.e., seven TV seasons = seven of their years).

 

[Tuskin38]

Unless it was mentioned or seen onscreen, then it isn't canon. Things can become canon, but only by appearance or mention onscreen.

So the Akira class name isn't canon then?

It was never seen or mentioned on screen.

 

[cultcross]

yeah, but what about the other seasons?

Dialogue regularly supports the '1 season = 1 year' convention, and certainly once DS9 begins, the overlap helps ground the timeline. Even Nemesis, lacking a series to overlap with, had a stardate, and Picard's line placing Encounter at Farpoint 15 years previously.

 

[cultcross]

So the Akira class name isn't canon then?

Correct. This is also true of the Steamrunner, Norway and others. Even Miranda class name isn't canon.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yet a lot of people consider them canon

I blame people taking memory-alpha as gospel

Correct. This is also true of the Steamrunner, Norway and others. Even Miranda class name isn't canon.

The name Miranda shows up on some computer screens IIRC

 

[cultcross]

Memory Alpha says of the Akira class

"Background information
The name of the ship class was never mentioned on screen but is derived from production sources."

The name Miranda shows up on some computer screens IIRC

True, that one depends on how sharp your eyes are, so is arguable.

 

[Tuskin38]

Memory Alpha says of the Akira class

"Background information
The name of the ship class was never mentioned on screen but is derived from production sources."

I know that's why I mentioned it as an example

 

[BillJ]

Yet a lot of people consider them canon

Not canon, but nothing wrong with using them as placeholders until they are named.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Is there an Enterprise class? Because that would be funny.

 

[cultcross]

Is there an Enterprise class? Because that would be funny.

The Bridge Simulator in TWOK is labelled 'Enterprise Class' but that could be read another way, of course - the class of students training for the Enterprise.

 

[BillJ]

So the Akira class name isn't canon then?

It was never seen or mentioned on screen.

It is things like these that cause a lot of confusion in discussions. People wield fanon stuff like a club and then are shocked to learn that it actually isn't so.

Much was made of Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet back when Enterprise was getting off the ground, people swore up and down it was canon.

It wasn't.

 

[BillJ]

The Bridge Simulator in TWOK is labelled 'Enterprise Class' but that could be read another way, of course - the class of students training for the Enterprise.

We really don't know what class the refit-1701 actually is. We only know for sure that the 1701-A is Constitution Class.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

True, that one depends on how sharp your eyes are, so is arguable.

And sharp-eyed fans of the cult classic film The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eighth Dimension! watching the TNG episode "Up the Long Ladder" can declare that the SS Buckaroo Banzai, John Worfin, and the Planet 10 are all Star Trek canon.

Screenshot of monitor in TNG: Up the Long Ladder:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Expeditions_from_Sol_System,_2123–2190_remastered.jpg

 

[CorporalClegg]

It is things like these that cause a lot of confusion in discussions. People wield fanon stuff like a club and then are shocked to learn that it actually isn't so.

Much was made of Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet back when Enterprise was getting off the ground, people swore up and down it was canon.

It wasn't.

Even if it were true though, would it have really mattered? I mean, does T'Pol's existence change Spock's character arc in any way? No.

Along those same lines, does Burnham's existence--even if it turns out she hand Spock have a close relationship--change Spock's character arc in any way? It really doesn't. In fact, if done right, it can enhance it.

 

[cultcross]

We really don't know what class the refit-1701 actually is. We only know for sure that the 1701-A is Constitution Class.

Fair point - although the 1701 is confirmed as constitution class by Trials and Tribble-ations. But I guess the Refit could have a different class name.

ETA: This episode also gives a precise canonical date for The Trouble with Tribbles which I'd never noticed before. They state the exact time that has passed between the two episodes.