Looks like DS9 will not get Blu Ray

[Kor]

I wish they would at least release certain high-profile DS9 episodes on blu-ray, like they did with TNG sets of "Best of Both Worlds", "Unification," and whatever others I can't remember at the moment.

I like being able to buy a few particularly noteworthy episodes instead of having to buy whole seasons. The only Trek series that I own in its entirety is TOS, and I have limited shelf space for any more.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

CBS decided to release TNG on Blu-Ray first before going to broadcast syndication. So CBS did not have that big sales revenue before they put TNG out on home video.

But the show was available to broadcasters shortly after season one premiered on Blu-ray. The episodes of each season also showed up on Amazon Prime (free to subscribers) six months after physical release.

The questions still remains: if CBS made all this money off of TNG-R, why would they disband the staff that put it together? If they truly thought there was money to be made, why not go directly to producing Deep Space Nine in HD?

 

[Kilrahi]

CBS decided to release TNG on Blu-Ray first before going to broadcast syndication. So CBS did not have that big sales revenue before they put TNG out on home video.

But the show was available to broadcasters shortly after season one premiered on Blu-ray. The episodes of each season also showed up on Amazon Prime (free to subscribers) six months after physical release.

The questions still remains: if CBS made all this money off of TNG-R, why would they disband the staff that put it together? If they truly thought there was money to be made, why not go directly to producing Deep Space Nine in HD?

Exactly.

I remember when TOS came out in Blu tons of fans vehemently denied a TNG effort was possible. I and others kept hoping though and surprise of surprises the impossible happened.

However, this time feels different.

Those in the know call the TNG effort a disappointment, and If you are worried about costs but leaning towards yes you DON'T bust up your golden team. That just sets the inertia to "no."

Streaming arguments and future proofing seem to make sense BUT the fact is we are making up key facts. Most critically, we have no idea how much money the DS9 SD DVD and streaming made for CBS when those formats WERE hot, but CBS does. If those numbers are bleak and unimpressive than there is no reason for them to believe a HD upgrade for a twenty year show will somehow change direction. Further, if TNG, the darling of Trek offshoots is murmered within the ranks to be a disappointment even with all the streaming and digital options existing today, what idiot drops $20 million on Trek's dark horse?

It breaks my heart to say this about my fave Trek series, but this time I find myself in the "no" camp. I would love to be wrong, but it's hard enough keeping hope alive for Jesus's return.

 

[USS KG5]

And it is an EXTREMELY WEAK argument to say that TNG-R failed due to low home video sales. There are multiple options for revenue for CBS with TNG-R that are much bigger sources than Blu-Ray/Home Video. There's conventional broadcasting, internet download (iTunes, Amazon Video on Demand), streaming (Amazon Video On Demand, CRAVE TV), and with conventional broadcasting and streaming CBS and the stations are able to sell advertising slots for a lot more than they can charge the average consumer for a download or Blu-ray.

Sure, I think you would get general consensus that if CBS took into account all future revenues of TNG then at some point it will break even. As I've said before even John Carter will eventually (and heck, I actually liked John Carter).

The thing is, somebody will point out that, whisper it, a lot of the show hasn't dated terribly well, and it will struggle to win new audiences in a TV market where it has to compete with Breaking Bad, and its cousins.

They therefore are not expecting thousands of new converts to TNG, but a solid streaming market for the show based on nostalgia, and those of us who remember it first time, and, whisper it again, they probably would have got that without the remastering.

So basically, their biggest and best chance to make actual profit from the remastering itself, not future sales of the show they would likely have gotten anyway at least for a few years, was the Blu Ray sales, which were crap.

DS9 would be far more expensive to remaster, for far lower sales, and with much less interest for future streaming markets. It was never as popular as TNG and while I suspect it probably would stand up better storytelling wise in the modern market than any of the other shows, I'd be amazed (but pleased) if we got a remaster at this point.

Bottom line, it won't pay for itself in three years, so it won't happen, its business.

But with 4k streaming already occurring, and 4k broadcasting on the horizon, CBS is going to need to offer DS9 in HD, because stations and people are not going to be interested in upconverted 480 video, and revenue potential for DS9 and Voyager is going to dry up.

You are assuming there that it hasn't already, there is far less concern for the other two series. It is no coincidence that the two series that were remastered (TOS and TNG) are by far the most popular. DS9 and VGR likely also had much lower DVD sales, and are less popular in streaming.

So CBS have over 300 episodes of Trek product to sell in HD, and you Mr Netflix can have DS9 and VGR in SD for cheap to get trek fans to sign up.

CBS can now take their millions and invest it in new serialised shows about anti-heroes!

 

[Lance]

Here's another thing: people talk about there being a need for HD remasters to help sell the shows for HD television broadcasts moving forward, but TBH that's relying on the idea that HD networks are willing to buy them. Here in Australia, local network channels are even now still showing TNG SD in late night timeslots, haphazardly 'upscaled' to HD, but they haven't bothered buying the actual HD remasters for broadcast (even though they're available). At the end of the day CBS may have entered into the project working on assumed 'predicted future sales' that have ultimately proven false, at least so far.

I know there are some channels out there showing the TNG-R, but it isn't like everybody broadcasting reruns of the show in high definition are falling over themselves to buy the new prints.

 

[dub]

DS9 and VGR...are less popular in streaming.

We have no way of knowing that for certain since streaming services don't currently release any details about viewing habits. The "ratings" for Netflix which have been cited in this thread as evidence of popularity on Netflix are nothing more than single clicks to say how much you like a show - but you don't have to watch the show at all on Netflix to rate it. So those "ratings" mean zilch when it comes to actual viewing habits.

However, sometime this year we will have some viewership reports - actual data - from Nielsen when it comes to Netflix and Amazon.

http://circanews.com/news/nielsen-measures-online-streaming

The reports will be incomplete, obtaining "select" viewership data, and will not include viewership on mobile devices. Considering the rise in popularity of mobile, that's going to paint a not-so-accurate picture of overall viewing habits. But, this is Niesen we're talking about. Notoriously accurate, right? All joking aside, I look forward to seeing ANY report of streaming viewing habits. They are long overdue and I predict there will be some surprises that will change some things about the types of new shows which are produced, and even give some older shows new life in HD or as reboots. Now that last part is just my personal prediction and just a gut feeling, not based on anything specific, other than the popularity of reboots these days.

And hopefully Nielsen will start counting mobile viewership data soon.

 

[BillJ]

I still think the question is: how much HD Star Trek do content providers really need? Right now there's roughly 350 episodes (Star Trek, The Next Generation, Enterprise) and 12 movies in HD that content providers don't exactly seem to be beating down the doors of CBS to acquire.

 

[USS KG5]

We have no way of knowing that for certain since streaming services don't currently release any details about viewing habits...

It's likely though isn't it, lets face it.

However, sometime this year we will have some viewership reports - actual data - from Nielsen when it comes to Netflix and Amazon.
...I look forward to seeing ANY report of streaming viewing habits.

Totally agreed.

 

[RandyS]

If we don't get new Blu Ray sets can we at least get new packaging because my packages for the DS9 DVDs are falling apart. Whoever made those when the discs came out I hope got fired because he/she did a terrible job. They look nice, yeah, but they are plastic and had no longevity.

Agreed. ironically, the scotch tape I used to put mine back together again after they fell apart within a year of buying them (2004) has held up quite well.

 

[Squiggy]

OH JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST.

And you are "jumping the gun". We do not have a clear idea what CBS's plans are.

We also haven't heard CBS's plans about TNG Seasons 8 and 9 because not every insane suggestion warrants a response from the network. I think they're expecting people to fill in the blanks themselves.


1. They tried TNG. It didn't work.
2. That's great it airs all the time in Belgium. It doesn't here. That's all Hollywood cares about.
3. Making a show that hasn't aired in 10 years on even a shitty cable network available in HD isn't going to increase demand. Reality does not work that way. TNG's demand has been constant. Seinfield's demand has been constant. Law and Order's demand has been constant. The only people who care about DS9-HD are the dozen or so people wishing upon the farthest star that it's just around the corner.
4. Physical media is on the way out. The only way this would ever happen is that Netflix eats the costs. They're no stupid.
5. The only people from the project saying anything are all saying it's not happening.
6. CBS says "there are no plans."

What more do you people require? Roddenberry himself rising from the grave to tell you no?

 

[USS KG5]

Squiggy, you summed that up rather well!

 

[kkt]

Well, point 4 doesn't really matter. In the long run, whether they are selling discs or streaming, shows will need to be in HD to get a large audience. It'll be like black and white.

For that matter, points 2 and 3 are really the same, and points 5 and 6 are really the same.

However, yes, the current situation is overwhelmingly against it. Maybe in 10 years transfer technology will improve to where it's cheaper to make HD versions of the special effects. Don't bet the mortgage on it.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

I don't have a problem with my DS9 DVDs and they play well in my PS3.

And I'm fine with DS9 being on DVD. Personally I can tell no different in quality between a blue ray and a DVD.

 

[BillJ]

Well, point 4 doesn't really matter. In the long run, whether they are selling discs or streaming, shows will need to be in HD to get a large audience. It'll be like black and white.

That works under the assumption that it ever had a large audience in rerun syndication or streaming. It is very seldom that a shows audience will grow 20+ years after it goes off the air.

They were playing "The Most Toys" on BBC America last night. I popped in figuring they would at least have season three in HD by now since its been a year since they added season two. Nope. Seems BBC America is happy to have seasons one and two in HD and seasons three and on in SD.

 

[BillJ]

Personally I can tell no different in quality between a blue ray and a DVD.

Buy glasses! Quickly!

 

[Relayer1]

I don't have a problem with my DS9 DVDs and they play well in my PS3.

And I'm fine with DS9 being on DVD. Personally I can tell no different in quality between a blue ray and a DVD.

Your PS3 is probably upscaling them so you get faux HD reproduction.

Which isn't as good as HD, but probably looks better than DVD.

 

[Squiggy]

Well, point 4 doesn't really matter. In the long run, whether they are selling discs or streaming, shows will need to be in HD to get a large audience. It'll be like black and white.

CBS ran the numbers and found out that whatever meager audience bump they'd get from remastering a 20 year old show that had meager ratings to begin with wasn't worth the expense.

The show is done. CBS doesn't care about the audience.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

TNG's demand has been constant.

They were playing "The Most Toys" on BBC America last night. I popped in figuring they would at least have season three in HD by now since its been a year since they added season two. Nope. Seems BBC America is happy to have seasons one and two in HD and seasons three and on in SD.

This raises another issue. Is and/or was the demand for TNG and even TOS actually that high, or was it more the facts that TOS started it all and TNG was the highly-acclaimed reboot/revamp/spinoff that had never had anything like it done before?

At least in terms of America, it bears repeating: TOS is shown on one TV network nationally, and TNG is shown on one cable network nationally. Except for when SyFy gets a wild hair and runs a few of the movies one day, that is IT for Star Trek on TV here, and that's been the case since before the TNG Blu-rays came out.

 

[SoM]

However, yes, the current situation is overwhelmingly against it. Maybe in 10 years transfer technology will improve to where it's cheaper to make HD versions of the special effects. Don't bet the mortgage on it.

I doubt it - wasn't one of the biggest expenses of TNG-R the physical locating of the relevant reels in the salt mines (including any misplaced/mislabelled cans) and transporting them to be scanned (then put back)? The vast majority of the TNG-R re-post-production following that was simply assembly of existing assets, in a way which - with the decline of film in general and multi-pass model shots in particular - isn't likely to get cheaper. DS9-R S1-4 would be basically the same, so you could expect at least similar costs for those. And that's before you get to the CGI-dominant era.

 

[Admiral Bear]

Your PS3 is probably upscaling them so you get faux HD reproduction.

Which isn't as good as HD, but probably looks better than DVD.

Welcome to be corrected, but AFAIK, the PS3 doesn't upscale DVD.