Looking for a nice quiet corner of the galaxy... (journey times question)

[Kuri]

Hello. Again, I must confess to not being an ubertrekkie (yet), but I'm working on it. If this question is idiotic, please be patient.

For the sake of a story, I'm looking for an unexplored part of the galaxy, about 6 YEARS away from the UFP (as at the 2260s) - if going continously at full Warp 9 (which I know is impossible - they'll need lots of toilet stops, the idea is to give a total travelling time of about 10 years).

I like the look of the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant. On this map I've put a red circle as an "about here?" suggestion.

If my ship has to run the gauntlet of the Romulan Empire to get home as the final stage of its voyage (thus forcing a confrontation with the wicked space elves), it will make a certain young lady in RL very happy.

If the circle needs to move up-down-left-or-right that's cool. The galaxy is a big, big place!

Please can you advise if this distance looks kinda-sorta-right to necessitate a 10-year journey home?

Thanks,

Ensign Kuri (soon to become Tribble overlord)

 

[Sgt_G]

When you say year 2260, that's TOS era, correct?

If so, you can (in my opinion) ignore most of the TNG/DS9 era bad guys. The Breen would have been just starting out, as too the Ferengi. The Cardassians seemed to be coming out of a "dark ages" during DS9. To me, it seemed like their empire collapsed politically, and now (TNG) a military regime took over to pick up the pieces and rebuild. That could be an interesting route back home, going thru a region under economic / political collapse.

As to how far "six years away" is, part of that depends on how you view "high warp speed". If you simply go by the old formula of speed = warp-cubed times light-speed, it's not very far at all. Warp 10 would be one-thousand times light speed, so you'd only be 6,000 light-years from home.

I subscribe to a different theory in that space, due to gravity of stars and such, is naturally bent. When you warp bent-space, there is an additional variable in the formula. At low speeds, it doesn't matter, but as you increase the Warp Factor, this variable (or its influence) increases dramatically such that Warp 9.5 might be some 35,000 times light speed. As you said, no ship can maintain that speed. Plus the sensors get tunnel vision, so it's pretty risky. Backing down to a cruising speed of Warp 7, you're still going perhaps 5,000 time light speed, so your six year trip of 30,000 light-years is about a fifth or a sixth of the Milky Way's diameter.

 

[Kuri]

@Sgt_G Thanks again!

TOS era: Exactamundo. I like the retro uniforms.

"First contact" style adventures involving Cardassians and Ferengi are a neat idea, but I want to avoid breaking canon. Encountering a "rising" Cardassian warlike regime might be cool.

Warp 7 sounds more reasonable. As you know from the other discussion, I'm using a small ship never intended for such long voyages - so it'll be an "island hopping" effort where they have to frequently stop for refueling / toilet breaks. PS I've long shared that "space is bent" theory - it's the only way my tiny little mind can handle the infinity of the universe. If you start at one point, keep going long enough, through some unfathomable metaphysical process you end up where you started again. I call it the pacman-screen theory .

One fifth/sixth galaxy diameter sounds just about right, with plenty of room to work in according to the above map. You, Sir, are very helpful!

Kuri

PS. You might be pleased to know someone solved my "how to induce a supernova" problem from the other thread. It took one keyword: Trilithium.

 

[Sgt_G]

I prefer the map in the Franz Joseph Tech Manual, as expanded in the Star Fleet Battles universe here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/New Folder/SFU_Map_Gorn_NZ.jpg

 

[Kuri]

Hmmm. That's just the Alpha Quadrant, right? I looked up the Interstellar Concordium (as it's sort of "in the way" on that sf-games map). Nothing on Memory Alpha (only Beta). Do I need to worry about it? Maybe my ship needs to be stuck further away from the galactic core - right out on a spiral arm's extremity - in order for it to need to go back through the Romulan Empire?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'd be a little wary about going through Romulan space, it could be taken as an act of aggression and declaration of war--despite the circumstances. A ship such as the one you're planning would have a small sensor profile so would be harder to detect, but the Romulans are experts at covert operations.

 

[Sgt_G]

You don't really have to worry about the ISC, nor the Lyran and Hydran, as that are all inventions of ADB, the producers of SFB. The Kzinti are from TAS, and of course the Gorn have their empire. They weren't on the Franz Joseph map, but the Romulans and Klingons were.

I probably shouldn't have used that image, but I couldn't find an image of the map in the FJTM. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Kuri]

@Bry_Sinclair Yes, that's the point. They need to get home. They're out of fuel and supplies. Do they go round and add years to the voyage, or make a mad dash through and hope they don't get spotted/stopped?

On the other hand, what if they are approaching from the other side and intend to be all goody Federation representatives and respectfully stay away, but Romulan expansionists come out and grab them anyway?
Lots of juicy story-hooks in there!

This is all reserved for later in the planned storyline anyway, so the Romulan Empire bit is not that important to me. I just want to make sure they are 10 years from home, with plenty of empty space to explore in between, and some plausible hurdles at the last corner...

 

[Kuri]

@Sgt_G no problemo. It actually proved impossible to find a legible map on Memory Alpha so I went fishing on Google for mine. Don't know how official it is, either...

K

 

[Sgt_G]

They're out of fuel and supplies.

Can't help you on the food, water, and air, but here's how I handled the fuel question in one of my stories:

Commander Isenberg considered the suggestion. "Okay, let's do it. Mister Dupree, start looking for a suitable planet we can scoop from. Miss Tillman, please assist him." Isenberg pressed a button, "All hands, we're going to do a scoop and go in the next ten minutes or so. Get yourselves buckled in." He released the button and turned to the Marines. "Ever been on a scoop and go?"

Lieutenant Zychowski looked confused. "I don’t even know what that is, sir"

The commander grinned an evil grin. "Take a seat and get strapped in. I hope you didn’t eat a big breakfast."

Zychowski strapped himself in the third chair, the trainer's seat, behind Lieutenant Dupree and Ensign Tillman as they continued their sensor search. "What are you doing exactly?"

"A scoop and go," Tillman replied. "We're looking for a suitable gas giant or proto-star to skim off some hydrogen. Or to be more precise, the heavy hydrogen isotope known as deuterium."

"Deuterium? I though the warp drive runs on anti-matter."

"It does. Or rather, it runs on matter/anti-matter reactions. The deuterium is the matter part of the fuel." She looked at the planet that Dupree pointed to and shook her head as she tapped the screen on the line of the sensor reading that indicated it had too many carbohydrates in the mix. He flagged it as a planet to be surveyed at a later date; it might have indigenous life-forms. "What we'll do is fly low over the target planet and use the tractor beam to draw up a bulge in the atmosphere. Then we'll snap-turn back and fly thru that and pull it in with the Bussard collectors.

"We'll hit it at about warp one point four to one point six, or about three to four times light speed. As the mixture is pulled in, it will naturally begin to spin like a tornado. The heavier deuterium will separate due to centrifugal force, and we'll syphon that off. What's left of the hydrogen atoms will be squeezed together at hyper-luminescent velocities. Some of the atoms will be stripped of their electrons and become free ion particles, or be converted to tritium, which is too radioactive for our use, while a few hydrogen atoms will fuse to become helium atoms. It makes a great light show.

"Occasionally, like perhaps one in a hundred million chances, the hydrogen atoms will smash together in such a way as to create an anti-matter atom. These too will be drawn into the Bussard collector via a magnetic guide. With any luck, we'll get maybe one part anti-matter for every fifty thousand parts deuterium, but that's plenty." Ensign Tillman smiled at the Marine. "That's the dumbed-down high school version. If you really want to know what happens, you need to take a couple years of advanced physics."

Zychowski nodded. "So, if this is how you refuel the ship, why haven't I ever seen it before? And why did the commander say to buckle up?"

"This is an emergency procedure," Dupree explained. "Star Fleet has ships specifically designed to gather material to take to a star base for processing. We actually need the deuterium more than the anti-matter. When we're cruising below Warp Seven, the Bussard collectors pick up enough stray matter that the deuterium tank stays full." He look at the Marine and smiled, "As to buckling up, just wait until we hit the atmosphere at three times the speed of light. It's going to be a bumpy ride."

"Oh, so you've done this before?"

Both officers shook their heads. "Nope, never," Dupree admitted, "I think Chief Guzman is one of maybe five or six people on the Magnum who've ever been thru it. Right, Chief?"

"Who? Me? I'm playing this by ear!"

"Bull," Commander Isenberg complained with a grin. "I know for a fact you've done this at least a dozen times."

"Only nine, sir," the older man corrected him, "if you just count the times I was flying the ship," he added.​

As always, you can come up with any explanation you want to fit the plot line, as long as your stories are internally consistent.

 

[Kuri]

@Sgt_G Ah, I sincerely thank you for your efforts, but I must confess I deliberately didn't read that.

When I said I have a fuel problem - I meant the crew has a fuel problem. This is a good thing for me as writer, as it is a driving force behind the stories I have sketched out. I don't want to copy your ideas on how they find it / steal it / trade for it / etc.

Sorry!

Kuri

 

[Sgt_G]

Fair enough.

 

[Kuri]

OK, @Sgt_G I read it anyway. First off, I like your writing style. Nicely brief exposition through dialogue. The story looks interesting.

Those bussard collectors look useful. Do all Fed ships have them?

I was thinking of a more traditional mining operation to draw up deuterium from under a planet's crust.

Kuri

 

[Sgt_G]

Those bussard collectors look useful. Do all Fed ships have them?

Yes, they're canon. At least, in TNG.

I was thinking of a more traditional mining operation to draw up deuterium from under a planet's crust.

That would be the safer, more economic method.