Looking back on the Trek-Lit year 2008

[Kopernikus]

I haven't seen the traditional "looking back on the old year tread so far, so here it is. Let's talk about the Trek-Lit-vintage of 2008, be it the new books, the old ones you reread or read the first time at all.
For me it was a very good year, with 33 Trek-Books, 9 of them new appearances (In order from January to December):

Beyond Star Trek - Lawrence M. Krauss
CoE: Grand Designs
TNG : The Sky's the Limit
TNG: Before Dishonor Peter David
TTN: Sword of Damocles- Geoffrey Thorne
TOS: Vulcan's Forge - Josepha Sherman, Susan Shwartz
TNG: Diplomatic Implausibility - Keith R.A. deCandido
The Brave and the Bold, Book 1 - Keith R.A. deCandido
The Brave and the Bold, Book 2 - Keith R.A. deCandido
Forged in Fire - Michael A. Martin, Andy Mangels
DS9: Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers - James Swallow
Strange New Worlds II
CoE: Creative Couplings
Strange New Worlds III
Strange New Worlds IV
Strange New Worlds V
TOS: Vulcan's Heart
Strange New Worlds VI
Strange New Worlds 8
DS9: Fearful Symmetry - Olivia Woods
DS9: Terok Nor: Night of the Wolves - S.D. Perry, Britta Dennison
Strange New Worlds 9
TNG: Greater Than The Sum - Christopher L. Bennett
Myriad Universes: Infinity's Prism
DS9: Terok Nor: Dawn of the Eagles - S.D. Perry, Britta Dennison
VOY: Distant Shores
Myriad Universes: Echoes and Refractions
Enterprise Logs
TOS: Vulcan's Soul, Band 1/3: Exodus
Strange New Worlds I
Star Trek - James Blish
MU: Glass Empires
ENT: Kobayasi Maru - Michael A. Martin, Andy Mangels


"Beyond Star Trek" was at least partially quite interesting, but I liked Part One, "The Physics" of Star Trek better (At least as far as I can Remember, that was quite some time ago...). The mass of CoE-Books I read this year left a bit jaded with this series, especially given the fact that it was a constant up and down, from very good to almost unreadable. But the Cover-art of this big omnibuses is always amazing, one of the advantages the Trades have over the Mass-markets, the bigger size allows more creativity with the cover. The Up and Down is common thing with anthologies, of which I read a lot this year. "The Sky's the Limit" and "Distant Shores" were overall quite good, but unfortunately by far not as good as "Constellations", which still sets the standard for Anthologies in my opinion. The SNW-Anthologies (Still roughly a hundred Stories I haven't read, spread across all volumes) contained some real gems like "Our Million Years Mission" or "Mestral" but also many stories that shouldn't have been published in my opinion. But I still think, that it's a shame, that Series had to be stopped. Now we'll never how many talents could have been found through this contest...
"Before Dishonor", well, I say we'd better not open that can of worms again. Just let me say, I liked it, good comedy, typical Peter David and far better than many of the latter NF-Books. "Sword of Damocles" was a bit, well, weird would be a good description. I admit, in some parts I had a hard time following the story and my English is usually more than sufficient to read a Trek-novel. But once I got used to the Authors style, it became quite enjoyable, not as good as "Orions Hounds" but still far better than "The Red King".

2008, I finally started reading the Gorkon/Klingon Empire-series, together with it's, sort of, prequels, "Diplomatic Implausibility" and "The Brave and the Bold", the first one was quite good, the latter one didn't exactly overwhelm me, but I've read worse (And KRAD showed (once again) that he can do better later that year with his Myriad Universe-story). Another set of novels I started to catch up with was Sherman/Shwartz Vulcan-novel-series. From them, I liked Vulcan's Heart at most so far. Exodus featured far too much "Continuity Porn" in my opinion, the entire TOS-gang still around in the Post-Nemesis-Era, still showing the youngsters how to save the galaxy.....
Some long awaited, often delayed books finally hit the shelves this year, one of them being "Forged in Fire", one of the Highlights this year. A good story, lot's of politics, action and interesting characters, hopefully we're going to see more Excelsior-novels in the future.
A big surprise for me was "Fearful Symmetry". I admit, I'm not as enthusiastic about the DS9-relaunch as many others here, but this one was quite good, even though it featured the MU, another concept I wasn't particularly fond of until I read some Lit-approaches to this topic this year. The other one was "Glass Empires", of which I did not expect much, but got a very entertaining collection of good stories that made me want more. "Obsidian Alliances" and "Shards and Shadows" are already planned for the next weeks.
The first two stories from "Enterprise Logs" didn't exactly encourage me to read the rest, to phrase it politely....

The "Terok Nor" series was once again an up and down. Book 1 confirmed my suspicions about the concept and turned out to be too long and quite dogged, but the story got better and better with each instalment.
"Greater than the Sum" marked an anniversary for me, being the 250th Trek-book I read. And it certainly deserved this special place, a short, but very intense and emotional story, that made the Borg interesting once again. My Amazon-delivery containing "Destiny" is scheduled for next week, I'm really looking forward to the continuation.

The autumn brought not just bad weather, but also the best Trek-Books of 2008: "Myriad Universe". I'm a Fan of Alternate Reality-stories and so looked really forward to this compilations. And they even exceeded my high expectations. Especially "Places of Exile" and "The Chimes at Midnight" were simply amazing, I couldn't put the books when I read these two stories. Welcome in my personal "All Time Top Ten of Trek-Lit"... Now the long wait until "Shattered Lights" starts....
Doing a bit of archaeology, I read Jams Blish "Star Trek", the very first Trek-Book ever published. From a historical point of view quite interesting, but compared to modern day Trek-books of course rather cute than entertaining.
The year concluded with "Kobayashi Maru", a book that left me puzzled. How can the Authors of "Forged in Fire" and "Kobayashi Maru" actually be the same people? The entire story around "My name is Tucker, Charles Tucker III, direct descendant of a certain spy of her majesty's secret agency" is the most unnecessary plot that came came to print since The Dark Ages of the Arnoldian era. Mr. Mangels, Mr. Martin, you proved on numerous occasions, that you can do so much better (Forged in Fire, The Sundered, Taking Wing), so please leave ENT to somebody else in the future.

So, that was 2008, overall a very good year, let's see what 2009 brings (For the start hopefully some interesting posts with your thougths about 2008).

 

[Thrawn]

Good thread! I had a GREAT year catching up on these.

I'll order mine by series, instead of when I read them. This is all since July, without having read more than 6 or so Trek books for over 2 years prior to that (so I had a lot to catch up on).

I also sort of obsessively keep a journal of everything I read, with a rating out of 10, so I'll post those too. (Why not?) I do score pretty harshly, I think, since anything I'm reading I figure I'm going to enjoy. If it got anything above a 5, I was happy to have read it. Anything 9 or higher is an all-time favorite.

ENT:
The Good That Men Do - 8.5
Kobayashi Maru - 9 (Yes, a 9. I loved it.)

TOS:
The Captain's Daughter - 7
The Entropy Effect - 4 (I really don't get what the big deal is about this one)
Strangers From The Sky - 7
Vulcan's Glory - 7.5
Federation - 9
Burning Dreams - 7.5

VGD:
Harbinger - 9
Summon The Thunder - 8.5
Reap The Whirlwind - 9.5 (With these 3 books, this is easily my favorite series running now)

Lost Era:
Forged In Fire - 8
The Sundered - 8.5
The Buried Age - 9.5 (As of this book, I'm buying everything CLB ever writes)

TNG:
Diplomatic Implausibility - 6
Vendetta - 10 (still incredibly, unfailingly badass)
A Time To Be Born - 7
A Time To Die - 6.5 (continuing reading this series this year)
Death In Winter - 6
Resistance - 5.5
Q&A - 7.5
Before Dishonor - 8.5 (Yes, an 8.5. I thought it was great, if a little ignorant of continuity.)
Greater Than The Sum - 7

DS9:
The Left Hand Of Destiny, Book 1 - 7.5
The Left Hand Of Destiny, Book 2 - 4.5 (HUGE disappointment)
Fearful Symmetry - 7.5

VOY:
The Escape - 5
Homecoming - 4.5
The Farther Shore - 6 (Voyager didn't do so well in my reading this year! High hopes for Full Circle.)

NF:
House Of Cards - 8.5
Into The Void - 8
The Two-Front War - 8
Endgame - 9.5

Gorkon/KE:
A Good Day To Die - 6.5
Honor Bound - 7
Enemy Territory - 7.5 *I actually finished these last two on New Years Day, but who's counting
A Burning House - 9

TTN:
Taking Wing - 8
The Red King - 5.5 (bleh)
Orion's Hounds - 9
Sword Of Damocles - 9 (Surprisingly fantastic. I really hope we see Thorne again.)

MU/MyrU:
A Less Perfect Union - 6.5
Places Of Exile - 9
Seeds Of Dissent - 6.5

Crossover series:
Invasion 1: First Strike - 8.5
Invasion 2: The Soldiers Of Fear - 5.5
Invasion 3: Time's Enemy - 8
Invasion 4: The Final Fury - 6
The Brave And The Bold, Book 1 - 5.5
The Brave And The Bold, Book 2 - 8

Anthologies:
Constellations - 7

Now, I'm finishing up the A Time To series, then Articles, then the other two VOY relaunch books so far, then a re-read of GTTS, then DESTINY!!

And...holy crap, did I really read 51 Trek books this year? Wow...

 

[Defcon]

Usually Sxottlan did an annual thread about the past year in Trek Literature, I hope he doesn't mind that I copy his questions from last years thread into this one:

1. How do you feel the Trek book line has done in the last 12-15 months?

2. What specifically have you liked in regards to the entire Trek book line in that time?

3. And what specifically have you disliked in regards to the Trek book line of the last year or so?

4. Were there any trends or recurring themes emergent in the last 12 months or so that you liked?

5. What trends or recurring themes evident in the last year did you dislike and why?

6. What changes or additions to the Trek book line have you liked editorial-wise?

7. What editorial decisions from the last 12-15 months have you not liked?

8. What changes would you like to see in the Trek book line? Be it production choices or story editorial decisions?

 

[Turbo]

I'm horribly behind in my Trek reading.

TNG:
Q-in-Law
A Time for War, A Time for Peace
Resistance
Q&A
Before Dishonor
Greater Than the Sum

Other:
Warpath
Orion's Hounds
Articles of the Federation

I have a nice little to-read stack for the next few weeks though:
Strangers From the Sky
The Wounded Sky
Rihannsu: The Bloodwing Voyages
Worlds of DS9 (skipped these before reading Warpath; that was a mistake in hindsight, though I wasn't really lost during the novel.)
Sword of Damocles
Plus Destiny, Fearful Symmetry and this years books, which have not yet made their way to my bookshelf. Stupid bills.

 

[KRAD]

2008, I finally started reading the Gorkon/Klingon Empire-series, together with it's, sort of, prequels, "Diplomatic Implausibility" and "The Brave and the Bold", the first one was quite good, the latter one didn't exactly overwhelm me, but I've read worse (And KRAD showed (once again) that he can do better later that year with his Myriad Universe-story).

Glad you enjoyed at least some of my stuff.

The first two stories from "Enterprise Logs" didn't exactly encourage me to read the rest, to phrase it politely....

I'd give it another shot, as the rest of the anthology is much much stronger, particularly the April, Pike, Harriman, and Decker entries.

The Entropy Effect - 4 (I really don't get what the big deal is about this one)

STONE THE HERETIC!!!!!

Gorkon/KE:
A Good Day To Die - 6.5
Honor Bound - 7
Enemy Territory - 7.5 *I actually finished these last two on New Years Day, but who's counting
A Burning House - 9

I guess I'm getting better at this writing thing. Seriously, thanks!

The Brave And The Bold, Book 1 - 5.5
The Brave And The Bold, Book 2 - 8

Wow. If I may ask, why such a gap in rank between the two?

 

[Angstromdweller]

Let's see...

In order:
Burning Dreams
The Buried Age
The Landing Party from Constellations
Mosaic
Academy: Collision Course
A Burning House
The Mirror-Scaled Serpent from Obsidian Alliances
Official Record from Constellations
Fracture from Constellations
As Others See Us from Constellations
Make-Believe from Constellations
Taking Wing
The Red King
Articles of the Federation
Kobayashi Maru
Orion's Hounds

Sadly, I am a slow reader.

The Buried Age and Orion's Hounds are my obvious favourites, indeed CLB is now my favourit author.

The pleasant surprise have to be A Burning House. I have never been a huge fan of the klingons, but I really enjoyed to see so many facets of klingon society, especially the farmers. It is interesting though that the names I remember most are T'Lisik and Syruk.

Hopefully, I will reach the post-destiny era before the end of this year.

 

[William Leisner]

Let's see... my Trek reading in 2008...

TNG: Greater Than the Sum, by Christopher L. Bennett
MyrU: Places of Exile, by Christopher L. Bennett
TOS: Assignment: Eternity, by Greg Cox
TNG: Before Dishonor, by Peter David
Klingon Empire: A Burning House, by Keith R.A. DeCandido
TNG: Enterprises of Great Pitch and Moment, by Keith R.A. DeCandido
MyrU: A Gutted World, by Keith R.A. DeCandido
TNG: A Weary Life, by Robert Greenberger
Destiny: Gods of Night, by David Mack
Destiny: Mere Mortals, by David Mack
Destiny: Lost Souls, by David Mack
TNG: That Sleep of Death, by Terri Osborne
MyrU: Brave New World, by Chris Roberson
DS9: Saturn's Children, by Sarah Shaw
Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers, by James Swallow
MyrU: Seeds of Dissent, by James Swallow
MyrU: The Chimes at Midnight, by Geoff Trowbridge
DS9: Fearful Symmetry, by Olivia Woods

As well as (just to make y'all jealous):
A Singular Destiny, by Keith R.A. DeCandido
Over a Torrent Sea, by Christopher L. Bennett
Full Circle, by Kirsten Beyer

 

[Claudia]

My list is much shorter, I'm afraid. *g*

Destiny: Gods of Night - 8.5
Destiny: Mere Mortals - 6.5 (just for the Hernandez plot I'd give 10 - but the rest just felt too much like a filler... especially the ENT/Aventine-scenes)
Destiny: Lost Souls - 8 (emotionally powerful stuff, but predictable)

TOS: The Entropy Effect - 9
TOS: Ishmael - 8
TOS: Wrath of Khan - 8.5
TOS: Search for Spock - 8
TOS: Voyage Home - 7.5

MYR: Chimes at Midnight - 7
MYR: A Gutted World - 8.5
MYR: Brave New World - 7.5
MYR: A Less Perfect Union - 9

Constellations: Make-Believe - 10

not yet finished:
MU: The Sorrows of Empire
Articles of the Federation
Star Trek Academy: Collision Course

 

[JD]

I don't really remember what I read when, so I'm going to base this off the calendar on Memory Beta.
Looking at the list, I see that I was very happy with everything I read this year:
Forged in Fire
Day of the Vipers
Night of the Wolves
Fearful Symmetry
A Less Perfect Union, Places of Exile and Seeds of Dissent
A Gutted World
Greater Than the Sum
Kobayashi Maru
Gods of Night
Mere Mortals
Lost Souls
I enjoyed all of these stories but the ones that really stick out in my mind as the absolute best are
Day of the Vipers
Places of Exile
Greater than the Sum
A Gutted World
and all three Destiny books.
I'm reading Dawn of the Eagles right and I plan on reading the other two MyrU stories in the next month or two. After that I will be done with this years releases. Then on to the new year.

 

[ialfan]

DS9: Avatar, Book One 9/10
DS9: Avatar, Book Two 9/10
DS9: Section 31: Abyss 7/10
DS9: Gateways: Demons of Air and Darkness 9/10
DS9: Gateways: Horn and Ivory - 6/10
DS9: Mission Gamma #1: Twilight 8/10
DS9: Mission Gamma #2: This Gray Spirit 8/10
ENT: Kobayashi Maru 9/10
VGD: Harbinger 9/10
VDG: Summon the Thunder 6/10
VDG: Reap the Whirlwind 8/10
TOS: Crucible: Providence of Shadows 10/10
MYR: A Less Perfect Union 9/10
MYR: Places of Exile 9/10
MYR: Seeds of Dissent 6/10
MYR: Chimes at Midnight 9/10
MYR: A Guttled World 9/10
MYR: Brave New World 6/10
MU: The Mirror-Scaled Serpent 7/10
MU: Saturn's Children 7/10
VOY: Homecoming 8/10
VOY: The Farther Shore 7/10
VOY: Spirit Walk, Book One 6/10
VOY: Spirit Walk Book Two 6/10
VOY: String Theory, Book One 8/10
VOY: String Theory, Book Two 7/10
VOY: String Theory, Book Three 6/10
TNG: Imzadi 10/10
TNG: Triangle: Imzadi II 5/10
TNG: A Time to Be Born 7/10
TNG: A Time To Die 7/10
TNG: A Time To Kill 8/10
TNG: A Time to Heal 8/10
TNG: A Time for War, A Time For Peace 8/10
TNG: Death in Winter 6/10
TNG: Resistance 7/10
TNG: Q & A 9/10
TNG: Before Dishonor 8/10
TNG: Greater Than the Sum 9/10
TTN: Taking Wing 7/10
TTN: The Red King 5/10
TTN: Orion's Hounds 10/10
TTN: Sword of Damocles 6/10
Articles of the Federation 8/10
Destiny #1: Gods of Night 8.5/10
Destiny #2: Mere Mortals 9.5/10
Destiny #3: Lost Souls 9.5/10

 

[Steve Roby]

What did I read in 2008?

catching up:

The Case of the Colonist's Corpse
A Good Day to Die
Honor Bound
Enemy Territory

new stuff:

Greater Than the Sum
Day of the Vipers
Night of the Wolves
Dawn of the Eagles
Fearful Symmetry
Kobayashi Maru
A Burning House
Infinity's Prism
Echoes and Refractions
Gods of Night
Mere Mortals
Lost Souls

Overall, very few disappointments out of that bunch. Not a bad year for Trek fiction at all. I also read Captain Kirk's Guide to Women, Star Trek: The Collectibles, Ina Rae Hark's BFI TV Classics book on Star Trek, and various comic/graphic novel items.

Last and very definitely least...

For commentary on the year in review, see the Starfleet Library blog.

 

[captcalhoun]

Creative Couplings

Sword of Damocles

A Burning House

Fearful Symmetry

Greater Than The Sum

Infinity's Prism

Echoes and Refractions

Gods of Night

Mere Mortals

Wounds

 

[Paris]

I only just got back into Trek-lit in August after a year or so off. Here's what I was able to get through:

TOS - Strangers from the Sky, Spock’s World, Best Destiny, Vulcan’s Forge

TNG - The Valiant, Diplomatic Implausibility, A Time…to Kill, A Time…to Heal, Resistance, Before Dishonor, Greater than the Sum

SGZ-Gauntlet, Progenitor, Three

TTN - Sword of Damocles

New Frontier - Missing in Action

IKS Gorkon - A Good Day to Die

OTHER - Articles of the Federation, Destiny (all 3 books), Deny Thy Father (TLE)

I enjoyed the Stargazer Picard adventures (quick reads) and I intend to finish off that series, as well as the IKS Gorkon/Klingon Empire books (#2-4 are in my que)

I can't wait to read some of the 40+ trek books on my shelf in 2009

 

[Warp Coil]

Overall, I'd say this was a great year for Trek fiction, even though I spent most of the year reading some older material.

I re-read almost the entire DS9 relaunch in order to refresh my memory of events leading up to Fearful Symmetry:
Avatar, Book One
Avatar, Book Two
Section 31: Abyss
Gateways: Demons of Air and Darkness
Mission: Gamma - Twilight
Mission: Gamma - This Gray Spirit
Mission: Gamma - Cathedral
Mission: Gamma - Lesser Evil
Rising Son
Unity
Worlds of Deep Space Nine, vol 1-3
Warpath

I also re-read my very first Trek novel ever, Vendetta, because of the elements that were referenced in Before Dishonor.

Then there's the new stuff:
(DS9) Fearful Symmetry
(TNG) Greater Than the Sum
(TTN) Sword of Damocles
Destiny, Books 1-3

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Constellations: Make-Believe - 10

Thanks, Claudia. Glad it worked for you.

 

[Thrawn]

The Brave And The Bold, Book 1 - 5.5
The Brave And The Bold, Book 2 - 8

Wow. If I may ask, why such a gap in rank between the two?

I like the pleasant, quirky tone the series is written with, but I felt like it was undermined in the first one by the two stories in that book being about crews that immediately die (or close to it) after the end of the story. I also felt as though there wasn't any particularly pressing need to describe the crews in the first book; it felt a little too much like Star Wars's tendency to write novels about every single minor character ever glimpsed on screen, whether they're particularly interesting or not.

Compared to that, I thought Tuvok's joining the Maquis was a story very much worth being told, and extremely well done at that, and the draw of the Gorkon crew (and the fact that the adventures continued after that), as well as the entirely unexpected but very fun Spock/Worf scenes, sold me on the second book pretty solidly.

 

[Thrawn]

Constellations: Make-Believe - 10

I gave Constellations a 7 overall, but I have to 100% agree with this. Possibly the finest short story Trek has ever generated; major credit to Allyn Gibson.

 

[KRAD]

I like the pleasant, quirky tone the series is written with, but I felt like it was undermined in the first one by the two stories in that book being about crews that immediately die (or close to it) after the end of the story. I also felt as though there wasn't any particularly pressing need to describe the crews in the first book; it felt a little too much like Star Wars's tendency to write novels about every single minor character ever glimpsed on screen, whether they're particularly interesting or not.

Ah, see the whole reason why I focused on the Constellation and Odyssey crews is because they died soon thereafter.

Something I absolutely detest in fiction is the notion of the innocent bystander or the faceless victim, and the tendency to devalue the death of a human (or sentient) being because that person isn't one of the main characters. Hell, I'm still aggravated that people refer to Wildfire as the story where Duffy died, ignoring the fact that he was one of a score of casualties on the da Vinci.

My goal with the first three installments of The Brave & the Bold was to make the deaths of the crew of the Constellation and the Odyssey and the casualties Voyager suffered when it fell down the Caretaker's rabbit hole meaningful. It's easy to watch "The Doomsday Machine" and see empty corridors and to watch "The Jem'Hadar" and watch the big 'splosion when the Odyssey goes boom, but there were people on those ships.

Imagine a TNG episode in which Riker, La Forge, Crusher, Ogawa, and Ro are all killed. It would be devastating, and their deaths would inform every action that the characters took thenceforth, and dominate the storyline. Yet the equivalent happened in "Caretaker," and nobody even mentioned Cavit, Stadi, the doctor, the nurse, and the chief engineer (the latter three never even got names, and the latter never got a face) ever again in the present day once the first hour of "Caretaker" was done.

That's why I picked those two ships. They're not minor characters, they're simply heroes in different stories that we haven't been lucky enough to read/see. I want people to read these two books, and then watch "The Doomsday Machine" picture the Guillermo Masada I developed when they hear Decker's log entry; watch "Caretaker" and think that Cavit won't ever get to have his proper reunion with Dina Voyskunsky; watch "The Jem'Hadar" think of the crew when the Odyssey blows up, not the ship.

So what you describe as undermining is the entire raison d'etre of the books.

I hasten to say that I'm not saying your criticism is wrongheaded or bad -- I'm just telling where I was coming from writing it.

 

[Christopher]

Imagine a TNG episode in which Riker, La Forge, Crusher, Ogawa, and Ro are all killed. It would be devastating, and their deaths would inform every action that the characters took thenceforth, and dominate the storyline. Yet the equivalent happened in "Caretaker," and nobody even mentioned Cavit, Stadi, the doctor, the nurse, and the chief engineer (the latter three never even got names, and the latter never got a face) ever again in the present day once the first hour of "Caretaker" was done.

While I share your dislike for cavalier treatment of fictional deaths, I think this is an imperfect analogy, because Voyager was a new ship whose crewmembers didn't know each other very well yet. So they should've been affected by the deaths, but it wouldn't have been quite the same as the TNG analogy you make, where there are years of emotional connections involved.

 

[Thrawn]

KRAD - I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and that always did bug me about Voyager too. But I feel as though the length and subject matter of the stories was not sufficient to really imbue the characters with enough emotional depth to really make that part work. If they'd just been random new crews, and then at the end of their respective stories something had happened that had made those crews all die, it wouldn't have felt like it had much weight. To me, it just would've felt arbitrary and tonally incongruous. The fact that these were crews that had been mentioned already didn't change that for me.

Thanks for the post, though - I do see where you're coming from, I just don't think the series had the scale to quite get there. Even in the Voyager story, while very much intrigued by Tuvok's characterization and the way the plot played out, I wasn't at all invested in the minor characters. I just liked the Tuvok part enough that it worked rather well for me anyway.