Spoilers Loki season 2-- spoilers and discussion

[theenglish]

I never got the sense that HWR's actions were from any sense of benevolence even from his own POV.

I think most villains see themselves as the hero of their own story--and I don't think HWR is different. That said, I wasn't really thinking about Loki being the villain and HRW being the hero in this series--just that it has a touch of irony that Loki, in trying to save the multiverse, will bring about the destruction of everything (assuming that Secret Wars follows the comic story a little more closely than Secret Invasion did).

 

[Christopher]

just that it has a touch of irony that Loki, in trying to save the multiverse, will bring about the destruction of everything (assuming that Secret Wars follows the comic story a little more closely than Secret Invasion did).

Just because HWR self-servingly believes the only alternative to his scheme is the inevitable destruction of everything, that doesn't mean we're required to assume he's correct. I mean, there have been countless stories where the heroes are told they can't possibly succeed, and then they find a solution nobody else saw. Heck, that's literally what happened here -- Loki found a solution HWR didn't consider. The only thing HWR and the other Kangs could perceive was their zero-sum fight for dominance, so the only solution HWR could see was one where his timeline survived by destroying all the others. Loki found a more constructive, holistic path, not pitting the timelines against each other but nurturing and unifying them.

Yes, that means the threat of the multiple warring Kang variants is still out there, but it also means that there can be options that HWR was too narrow-minded to recognize.

 

[Galaxy]

Is there any indication that Marvel changed the ending after the arrest of Majors? They would not have been able to shot new scenes, but they could have re-edited, and maybe change the dialog.
There is a scene at the end where the characers state that the TVA has the Kang variants under kontrol. That is enough that they can drop the Kang story completely. I think Majors needs a sqeaky clean not guilty - not guilty on a technicality is not good enough - or he will never set foot on Disney property again. Loki was always going to become God of Stories since that was the direction the comics went, but what ever was planned for Kang can be canned, or replaced by another character. They could recast him, but that would not be the best solution imo.


Maybe I missed something, but what is the difference between blowing up the loom, and waiting for it to self-destruct? It releases the "pressure" on the temporal strings?

What was the point of setting up Timely with the TVA handbook? Was that a diversion?

Overall I love the show, probably the best Marvel has done imo, but felt Season 1 was better.

Just because HWR self-servingly believes the only alternative to his scheme is the inevitable destruction of everything, that doesn't mean we're required to assume he's correct.

It would have been better if Season 2 had introduced one of those alleged more destructive variants. Instead we got Timely, who was nothing more the a petty criminal. I guess they intended for Quantummania to serve that role? However, that Kang variant was finsiehd off by a Beta-Avenger. Ironically, the post credits scene in Quantum, if taken out of context, could have served here as well, with the variants celebtrating the death of HWR.

 

[MikHutch]

Beta-Avenger? Ant Man is fairly powerful

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is there any indication that Marvel changed the ending after the arrest of Majors? They would not have been able to shot new scenes, but they could have re-edited, and maybe change the dialog.
There is a scene at the end where the characers state that the TVA has the Kang variants under kontrol. That is enough that they can drop the Kang story completely. I think Majors needs a sqeaky clean not guilty - not guilty on a technicality is not good enough - or he will never set foot on Disney property again. Loki was always going to become God of Stories since that was the direction the comics went, but what ever was planned for Kang can be canned, or replaced by another character. They could recast him, but that would not be the best solution imo..

Majors was held for a few hours, because it's drunken behavior, they don't let people out until they sober up, then they put a protection order on him, against his victim, then he was arraigned, and did not go to jail, no bail was required.

A month ago, the person accusing majors of damage, fled the country, because they were accused of assault too, and the case against Majors fell apart as the only witness was gone.

Johnathan is free and clear last I checked, and was never unavailable for reshoots, although Marvel was paused, waiting to see if Majors was going to be convicted, or vindicated.

 

[Christopher]

Is there any indication that Marvel changed the ending after the arrest of Majors?

I believe I saw an interview with the producers of Loki saying this was the ending they always intended. Any changes resulting from the Majors controversy won't kick in until subsequent projects.

They would not have been able to shot new scenes, but they could have re-edited, and maybe change the dialog.
There is a scene at the end where the characers state that the TVA has the Kang variants under kontrol. That is enough that they can drop the Kang story completely.

I read it just the opposite way -- the mention of monitoring Kang variants as an ongoing issue is a teaser that it will continue to be an issue. After all, we're not going to see a story about every Kang variant causing trouble, just a select few. The TVA's unlikely to be able to contain every last one of them perfectly.

Of course, they could always drop the storyline later and use that ending as a handwave for why, but I don't think there's any reason to assume that line was added after the fact.

I think Majors needs a sqeaky clean not guilty - not guilty on a technicality is not good enough - or he will never set foot on Disney property again. Loki was always going to become God of Stories since that was the direction the comics went, but what ever was planned for Kang can be canned, or replaced by another character. They could recast him, but that would not be the best solution imo.

Whyever not? Recasting worked great for Banner and Rhodey -- both replacement actors are generally considered major improvements on the originals.

Maybe I missed something, but what is the difference between blowing up the loom, and waiting for it to self-destruct? It releases the "pressure" on the temporal strings?

The difference is that Loki took its place. He's doing the job it was made to do, but the Loom was consciously designed to throttle down the timelines and prevent them from multiplying, while Loki is managing them in a more supportive and nurturing way.

What was the point of setting up Timely with the TVA handbook? Was that a diversion?

Miss Minutes and Renslayer wanted to put him on the path to becoming a new He Who Remains. They were trying to shape the course of his life so that it paralleled HWR's journey and he ended up in the same place, so he could take HWR's place in the timeline.

 

[MikHutch]

I wonder where Renslayer will show up

 

[The Wormhole]

Is there any indication that Marvel changed the ending after the arrest of Majors? They would not have been able to shot new scenes, but they could have re-edited, and maybe change the dialog.

They've denied doing so, and I believe them. For an example of what something looks like when they do go in during post-production to re-edit and alter dialogue to write a character out of a show without filming new content, look at the Expanse when Cas Anvar was fired. It looks sloppy AF and the comparisons made by many to "Poochie being called back to his homeworld" (a Simpsons reference) are well earned. Nothing in the Loki finale comes of as sloppy like that, so this is very likely the ending the show would have had even without the situation with Majors.

 

[Galaxy]

Majors was held for a few hours, because it's drunken behavior, they don't let people out until they sober up, then they put a protection order on him, against his victim, then he was arraigned, and did not go to jail, no bail was required.

A month ago, the person accusing majors of damage, fled the country, because they were accused of assault too, and the case against Majors fell apart as the only witness was gone.

Johnathan is free and clear last I checked, and was never unavailable for reshoots, although Marvel was paused, waiting to see if Majors was going to be convicted, or vindicated.

I missed that part. But Disney still cancelled (delayed?) his boxing movie, correct?

 

[Galaxy]

Miss Minutes and Renslayer wanted to put him on the path to becoming a new He Who Remains. They were trying to shape the course of his life so that it paralleled HWR's journey and he ended up in the same place, so he could take HWR's place in the timeline.

I thought they were Agents of HWR "He has given you something to read." "He?" "Just read."

Would would imply that HWR wanted Viktor Timely in that role, however in the season 2 finale he ridiculed Timely, and made fun of his speech deficiency.

 

[Christopher]

I thought they were Agents of HWR "He has given you something to read." "He?" "Just read."

Yes, in the sense that they were carrying out HWR's pre-existing backup plan of what to do if he was ever killed -- namely, to create his replacement. Although he clearly had more than one backup plan, with the Loom being the ultimate one.

 

[JD]

I think most villains see themselves as the hero of their own story--and I don't think HWR is different. That said, I wasn't really thinking about Loki being the villain and HRW being the hero in this series--just that it has a touch of irony that Loki, in trying to save the multiverse, will bring about the destruction of everything (assuming that Secret Wars follows the comic story a little more closely than Secret Invasion did).

If the movie follows the comics then Secret Wars will end with

Spoiler: the end of the Secret Wars comic

the multiverse being reset, and the whole Kang thing mostly likely resolved. So in the long run, Loki will have made the right choice, and letting the Kang War play out to it's endgame, will actually end up leaving everything in a better place in the end.

Spoiler coding that just in case this is what happens in the movies and people don't want to know.

 

[MikHutch]

It's possible. However maybe it won't be so straightforward

 

[theenglish]

If the movie follows the comics then Secret Wars will end with

Spoiler: the end of the Secret Wars comic

the multiverse being reset, and the whole Kang thing mostly likely resolved. So in the long run, Loki will have made the right choice, and letting the Kang War play out to it's endgame, will actually end up leaving everything in a better place in the end.

Spoiler coding that just in case this is what happens in the movies and people don't want to know.

Yes, that's what we're expecting, but a lot happens before we get there.

 

[Starkers]

It's interesting to see that now the strike is over Hiddleston is finally able to promote the show, he was on BBC Radio 2 this morning. A couple of vaguely interesting titbits.

Firstly, apparently in amongst the jumble of OB's workshop are VHS copies of The Goonies and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Secondly Zoe Ball asked if this was the end for Loki and Hiddleston responded with something like: "I honestly don't know, but if it is I'm happy with it." which sounds like a stock response more than anything but who knows, maybe he genuinely isn't sure?

 

[Christopher]

Secondly Zoe Ball asked if this was the end for Loki and Hiddleston responded with something like: "I honestly don't know, but if it is I'm happy with it." which sounds like a stock response more than anything but who knows, maybe he genuinely isn't sure?

I see no reason to doubt that he means what he says. I mean, long-term plans are the domain of Feige and his staff. Actors aren't privy to that planning until their agents get a call. They're busy trying to line up other work in the meantime.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Firstly, apparently in amongst the jumble of OB's workshop are VHS copies of The Goonies and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Yet another reason to go back and watch it all over again!

 

[Turtletrekker]

I believe him. I recall Chris Hemsworth mentioning that he was surprised to see the traditional "Thor will return" tag at the end of Love and Thunder because that was the first he had heard of it.

ETA: I also recall Anthony Mackey first hearing about Cap 4 from, I believe it was, the cashier at a local store who had read about it online.

 

[The Wormhole]

I also recall Anthony Mackey first hearing about Cap 4 from, I believe it was, the cashier at a local store who had read about it online.

Stuff like that just emphasizes how scary quickly news gets on the internet in this day and age.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Loki ends up in tress more than you'd think.