Spoilers Loki season 2-- spoilers and discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that's how I read it.

    This was super ambitious. Overall, I'm please and impressed. They managed to keep it magical, about the mysteries of existence, and yet not utterly incomprehensible. I'd have to give it thumbs up. Great job, Loki people. If they do a season three, I'll eagerly tune in, if not this was a fine conclusion.
     
  2. Starscream2112

    Starscream2112 Captain Captain

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    Loved it....But who or what is Yggdrasil?
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yggdrasil is the world-tree from Norse Mythology, the tree of life that binds the Nine Realms together. This seemed to be saying that the multiverse Loki shaped is retroactively the Yggdrasil that bound the realms together in the Thor movies. Or maybe it's just using the iconography of Yggdrasil for a cool image.
     
  4. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I'm going to say the world tree at the heart of Norse mythology. Sure someone will have a better explanation I recognised it as soon as I saw it.

    Well that was an interesting finale. I agree with what others have said about it being an extended epilogue for season 1.

    I like that Loki finally got his throne, though not in the way he ever expected. That reference to a Kang variant being defeated near the end, did that refer to Quantumania?

    I'm not sure we really needed this, but Hiddleston, Di Martino, Quan, Wilson and Cordero are all kinds of adorable so I do hope we see at least some of those characters again.

    So, do we figure that's it for Hiddleston in the MCU now?
     
  5. Starscream2112

    Starscream2112 Captain Captain

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    That is the impression that I got.
     
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  6. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mixed feelings on the Loki season finale.

    I do want to give the episode credit. It was surprising, Tom Hiddleston knocked it out of the park and it pointedly returned to a lot of the themes related to time travel and free will explored in Season 1 (and ignored up until now). Most importantly, it steadfastly refused to have a cliche MCU ending. There was no villain fight - barely even a villain (though OG He Who Remains did get to swap banter with Loki). The pathos of the bittersweet ending - Loki realizing that he's not just a man, he is a god, and taking his position as the god of time/the multiverse to save everyone, even if he has to sit on that throne for all eternity - it was moving.

    That said as good as the episode was in isolation, it did not work as a logical coda to the entire season. Indeed, it invalidated most of Season 2 as pointless wheel spinning, with the early realization that the loom could never be repaired. The episode's climax involved a return to the penultimate fight with Loki and Sylvie, essentially admitting that the emotional tension there was better than anything the season had thrown together so far. Worst by far, though, is that Loki didn't really have a character arc up until now. He was just a dude, being dragged along by the plot, where just about any character could fit as well. Ultimately, it led to this feeling like it could have been a feature-length Loki movie as a coda to Season 1, and worked just as well.

    I'm also confused because Marvel made explicit comments about how this episode would tee up Kang as the antagonist for the Multiverse Saga. And then...it doesn't. There were some references to the Kangs being out there, along with a blink-and-you-miss-it reference to Quantumania, but the ending scene at the TVA does not imply they are heavily concerned about him. Makes me wonder if there was a post-credit scene they cut at the last minute.

    So on the whole, I liked it as an episode. I found it a very brave/creative way to end a MCU series. However, I think it was a mediocre ending to both Season 2, and Loki's character arc.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes. Mobius says a variant caused trouble in a 616-adjacent realm, which no doubt means the Quantum Realm. (Because the MCU is officially called Earth-616 within the MCU, despite other sources calling it Earth-199999 or whatever. Despite the pretense of some works that it's all a single unified multiverse, it's still really just a bunch of alternate fictional interpretations of the comics, and with the exception of Spider-Verse, they all call their own primary universe Earth-616 when the subject comes up.)

    I did repeatedly find myself thinking this season that Hiddleston is no longer convincing as an ageless Asgardian. In-story, all of this (until the time-loop business in the finale) is supposed to be just days, at most weeks, after Loki was pulled from the timeline at the end of Avengers in 2012, but Hiddleston looks significantly different now than he did then. I guess they could digitally de-age him if they wanted to bring him back, though.


    Except that even as a movie, it still would've just felt like an afterthought, a gratuitous complication to the ending of season 1 that still comes out in essentially the same place it started, aside from a few small character-arc advances.


    I guess it implicitly sets up the threat, because He Who Remains stressed that destroying the Loom would unleash the multiversal war that would destroy everything, and then Loki destroyed the Loom. But it does rather rely on the viewer remembering the whole discussion setting up that threat in season 1, so it's not as strong as it could be.


    It was creative in visuals, design, and direction, but there was very little story, just a shaggy-dog tale about dealing with a dragged-out plot problem, with hardly any character exploration. The plot drove nearly everything the characters did, instead of the characters driving the plot. And you're right -- it made the whole season that preceded it feel even more pointless than it was already feeling to me.


    You know what I would've liked to see as a post-credit scene? Loki looks down from his Yggdrasil throne, asking someone to help him monitor the multiverse, and the camera turns and we see Jeffrey Wright as Uatu.
     
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  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But the whole idea was reiterated in this very episode.
     
  9. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Especially given they show a legacy clip at the beginning of this episode.

    Admittedly, most of what's aged on Hiddleston is his hairline. It's actually kind of impressive he's lost so much in the front without any signs of thinning on top yet. Though I wouldn't put it past Marvel to have put a hairpiece on him.


    Again, the choice of no post-credits scene was...weird for Marvel. I'm convinced something was meant to be here, even if not another Jonathan Majors scene, and they cut it at the last minute.
     
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was never a concern for me but after this any aging of Hiddleston can be readily explained as part of the toil he has taken.

    With the last shots of OB pulling out a fresh supply of TVA handbooks and then the shot of young Timely maybe they were going to go a little differently originally.
     
  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  12. Dee1891

    Dee1891 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I enjoyed Season Two more than I did Season One. I didn't feel any sense of the series being convoluted. I would still judge this entire series as mixed one for me, due to my less positive feelings for Season One.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2023
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I doubt it. It seemed like the idea there was simply to show that Timely didn't get the handbook this time around, so his future would unfold without interference.

    If anything was cut, I suspect it was a continuation of that scene with Renslayer. She was at the End of Time and she stared at a growing purple light, but we didn't see what it was. Which is oddly open-ended, given that the showrunner has said they have no intention of doing a third season. So it feels like something was missing.
     
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  14. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    It's pretty rare that cast chemistry is this good from the get-go as with this group. And the chemistry between Hiddleston & Wilson is on par with David Tennant & Michael Sheen for me.


    This is a nice, concise concept of what Loki has become.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2023
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  15. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was obviously Alioth.
    I would call it more annoying than weird. It's a casualty of the Majors situation. Disney is getting ready to wash their hands of him in the event he's convicted.

    What I want to know is, how did they get away with the first episode of season 1 and the last episode of season 2 having the exact same title?
     
  16. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that was certainly six episodes of a series that 1) Could easily have just been two hours if they cut out all of the filler and 2) Really didn't seem to have a point, except to give Loki a slightly more actively heroic end then Infinity War did.

    I mean I liked getting more time with Loki and Moebius, and OB was a great new character (it was nice to see Ke Huy Quan finally act in something I didn't hate for the first time in his career), but it all felt wasted on a pointless story. Sylvie felt like she went from an essential part of season 1 to someone who only shows up in Season 2 out of obligation. I loathed Renslayer and Miss Minutes, they were really just terrible villains and basically were irrelevant to the story in the end. Kang we'll hopefully not be seeing any more of, but even if the character gets recast Loki S2 didn't really do anything to move the Kang stuff along, even if the scene with Loki and Kang in the last episode was really good. I actually liked the last episode a lot, but thats because Groundhog Day style episodes are one of my favorite sci-fi/fantasy style stories, the actual ending was still not great.

    So, overall for me Loki Season 2 was a slightly boring, but occasionally pleasant, waste of time. A big step down from Season 2, but not an outright bad show.
     
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  17. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Had a long week so i dozed off midway through the episode which is not a reflection about its quality but the hell of the week i had :lol:

    After rewatching the last half the episode and thinking about it a bit and talking with a friend about it we both agreed that Loki either has become God of Time or God of the Multiverse, kind of a reverse Kang who only wanted the one sacred timeloine to exist while Loki protects the entirety of the Multiverse, the days of pruning timelines are gone.

    Loki's journey seems to be complete now - from egotistical god of mischief with a giant chip on his shoulder to heroic self sacrifice but i wonder why the season was needed at all since the big change that happened only came about to be in the last 15 minutes or so. Thinking back on the season they were always reacting to events and trying to repair the Loom, not knowing it was not possible once the Multiverse came to be. It was a nice return to season 1 but i don't know how to feel to have watched a season where 3/4 of it were inconsequential and could have been skipped easily without affecting the outcome or not understanding the events in the last minutes of the show.

    I am now wondering if and where Loki can go from there and if this was his swansong? If not they'll find a way for him to be able to leave the throne he so badly wanted for most of his life but if not it is probably the most heroic and selfless thing an MCU hero has done since Tony snapped everyone back knowing it would kill him. This could be even more tragic since Loki is at least extremely long lived, possibly immortal, and is now bound to the throne and the Multiverse for the rest of his days.

    Loki was possibly planned and written before chaos at Marvel erupted and they started to take an ax to their franchise in the hopes of turning the ship around so it could be that they meant to make this the goodbye to this character like they said goodbye to several in Endgame and later.
     
  18. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I felt like the end of the episode pretty much resolutely leaving no loose ends, save for one.
    • Loki can't get off his throne presumably now, which means unless he has a cameo in Kang Dynasty/Secret Wars where other people come to visit him, we've seen the last of this variant.
    • The TVA characters seem to have fallen back into business as usual. However, I'm kind of confused as to what they have to do now. Sounds like they're going to be on the lookout for Kang variants? Unclear.
    • Renslayer ends up in the Void, and sees Alioth (the implication is she dies).
    • Timely is seen making candles as a child with no intervention - he'll lead a normal life and not amount to much of anything.
    • Sylvie faps off to wherever she damn well pleases and tries to forget she's a deity.
    The one question I have is what the hell Mobius does now? He made it clear he was leaving the TVA, but he didn't have any concrete plans. He kind of gawks at his variant being a happy(ish) dad, but there's no real room for him there. So the finale sets up that he's going to do something...but what? Where the hell can he fit, considering he's a normal dude with a TempPad?

    Maybe he's in Deadpool 3? Maybe he's how the multiverse shenanigans start there? Owen Wilson in a Deadpool movie would be great.
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There was a close-up on a poster of the Yggdrasil timeline-tree with a caption something like "Help the Branches Grow." It seems their job now is to protect the timelines instead of pruning them.
     
  20. HIjol

    HIjol Vice Admiral Admiral

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    “Gotta keep the Big Picture in mind…”
    ~~Mobius, TVA
     
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