Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by All Seeing Eye, Aug 7, 2009.
Is there any Google-maps like resource to the star trek universe?
A Google Map of the Star Trek universe would be supercool, but since there is no canon map or anything even close, it's unlikely.
I think it's possible to use the Google API to make you own maps, so you can make one yourself.
Not markedly so, though. At the very best, it would take a decade off the journey - meaningless when the total length of seven decades is already unacceptable.
No, it doesn't. Janeway had no idea where Borg space would be when she raised anchor at Ocampa. So she couldn't have been avoiding it no matter what course choice she made.
Even after getting a domesticated Borg of her very own, Janeway still doesn't learn the extent of Borg space, or at least never tells the audience about it. Probably the Borg are simply everywhere, what with being hundreds of thousands of years old and all.
But if the wormhole doesn't work (which has been the case of 100% of the other wormholes in Star Trek, and has happened to the Bajoran one a number of times, not to mention the numerous attempted terrorist strikes, one of which was even sanctioned by Starfleet!), it takes the better part of a century. That's insane - nobody in her right mind would place everything on a single card like that.
Only a badly deluded Trekkie would think that everything ever mentioned in Star Trek must be practicable and significant.
Yet everything at the time of Janeway's departure pointed to a looming disastrous event just beyond the horizon. There were no redeeming facts known about the Dominion yet, no signs of weakness, no signs of hesitation or mercy. Janeway should have expected the wormhole to have been gone just days after her departure - or else the UFP would be gone, occupied or destroyed by the Dominion.
Even worse - now the Romulans, too, would jeopardize the "plan" of getting home via the Bajoran wormhole. If Sisko stopped them (and in "Visionary", he utterly failed), then the Bajorans or the Cardassians would do the deed. Or the Tholians. Seems that everybody wanted their piece of the wormhole-blowing action...
Janeway would not have known any of this at the time of her departure. Events up to that point had demonstrated that mighty warships sent through the wormhole would be mercilessly destroyed, and there was no indication that any sort of vessel would be allowed to proceed.
That's still better than trusting your life on a single wormhole that doesn't help you any even at the best case, will hurt you lot at worst, and yet by its very existence proves that the galaxy is full of such potential shortcuts (or else the laws of statistics are against Janeway and she has no hope anyway).
Laws of drama should not sway Janeway from making the right decision. She wasn't acting in a TV show, she was trying to get 150 people home. "Stupid" would be fine with her, as long as it worked. And of course it did - she was halfway home after seven years already. If she had made that good speed towards the Bajoran wormhole, she would have found it in its post-"WYLB" untraversable state some time in the mid-2380s, and would have reached home by the turn of the century. Taking the shortest and best route, she would have made it home by the mid-2380s already.
Half a dozen. Which proves Janeway was perfectly right in relying on random good fortune between duller homeward stretches (as opposed to random good fortune between duller stretches away from home).
But there are random shortcuts in the AQ as well: wormholes (as in "The Prize" and "Clues"), benevolent and malevolent technologically advanced aliens, weird spacetime anomalies... You just have to travel a couple of hundred lightyears between those.
Then that should suffice. It makes sense for a historical event to affect all those who live through that period in history. It makes far less sense for a geographical location to affect those who don't live anywhere near the location.
Meaningless? We're talking about shaving 3652 days off. That means a lot.
There Borg Were known to be in the Delta Quadrant a long time before Voyager Paris decided to kill of his crew mates.
Have you even seen DS9? The reason why the Bajoran Wormhole is special is because unlike OTHER wormholes it's very,very stable. At the time Voyager left only one attempt was made at the wormhole and that was by a nutter who was very easily stopped.
Personally by the way our reacting. You seem to have invested to much on Voyager emotionally and you can't handle criticism of your dearest Captain Janeway.
The Dominion threat was for the federation to stop sendings ships and building colonies. At the time Janeway left they looked like isolationists. No one even knew about their plan to start a war.
Everybody may or may not have wanted to do it. How ever a Defiant class warship and 5,000 torpedoes have made sure that it wasn't successful.
Yes she would have known that. Ships explored the Gamma Quadrant for 2 years and never meet contact with the Dominion. If the Dominion were near the wormhole everybody would have known about them in the first year.
So the best idea is to go through Borg territory,take a journey that will ensure that all of the crew with the exception of Tuvok and other vulcans would be dead and replaced by hopefully their kids and grandkids.
Uhm what? Post-WYLB the wormhole was fine. The Dominion relaxed the wormhole was open for business. In fact it was open for business for more then a year before the end of the show. Voyager could have come anytime.
Yeah you mean like the time Picard wanted to go to Earth to fight the Borg and BAM he was there he used a Transwarp conduit that was supringsly near Earth together. Who would have thought of that. He may otherwise have had to just wait for the journey to end.
I disagree. DS9 AQGQ. Voy DS9. We get to see the insiders look of Gamma Quadrant while DS9 would sort out the outsiders point of view.
Um, excuse me you two, but this problem is all based on one map that appeared for a few seconds on screen on one episode, yeah?
Just imagine that the angle between the wormhole and Voyager's route is a little greater, and the distance to the Gamma end of the wormhole would be greater than the distance straight to the Alpha quadrant. Then there is no problem.
Personally I think it is a bit much to suppose these maps are that accurate.
^ But the point is that if they are accurate, then Janeway was taking the long way round needlessly.
Personally I think Endgame should have ended like this...
"Captain, there's a passageway to the Alpha Quadrant, but if we use it, then the Borg will be able to use it to attack Earth, what do we do?"
"Find one to the Gamma Quadrant, we'll use the Bajoran Wormhole to do the rest of the job for us"
My two penneth...
I'm somewhat at loss to understand whether certain people here are merely joking, or being facetious, or truly incapable of thinking straight. It's frightening to think that there would be such failure to grasp a perfectly routine, mundane situation - that one would forgo the obvious, working solution and go seeking for some exotic special solution just because one is aware this special solution exists.
I already put it rather succinctly on the previous page:
Would you walk those six miles? Would you take an immense risk just because you didn't want to walk the extra mile? Could you ever be considered a responsible mother or father if you took your family those six rather than seven miles?
(I'd very much like to hear question answered before one applies the same logic on the VOY issue. I mean, you really may be an unfit parent, which then clarifies the subsequent discussion a lot.)
It's a question of taking two risky routes, both of nearly equal length (beyond the lifetime of the human crew), both of nearly equal risk (the Borg could lie on either route, as could other, heretofore unknown dangers, but the Dominion assuredly lies on the Gamma route), but with one of them featuring the immense extra risk that it might not be passable. That risk is at the very least 50%, what with so many enemies bent on preventing traffic through that wormhole, with so many nearly successful or indeed completely successful destruction attempts recorded so far. Only suicidal people take 50% risks - for no identifiable gain!
In the real world, one doesn't take such risks. Why should anybody think that the world of Star Trek should be different?
It's childish to refer to the Bajoran wormhole merely because one knows it exists. It is irrelevant to the situation, for the additional risk it presents for virtually no gain. That one even knows of it is a dramatic coincidence. Interesting plotlines and tragic and comic stories can be built on coincidences, but sensible plans should never rely on those.
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