News Live-Action ‘Cowboy Bebop’ tv series in the works

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Enterprise is Great, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    The opening of the Netflix show is based on the open of the movie, but it mishandles it by having it set in a casino instead of a convenience store, because it just goes OTT on the action in a preposterous way (Spike flips and coin, does a flip kick and sends the coin sailing into one of the group of guys, and none of them blast him during this) that the movie didn't (Spike faces off against one guy initially and the way he throws him off guard is logical based on the setting).
     
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  2. John Clark

    John Clark Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Liked it too (and no experience with the anime - yet). I do plan on checking out the original at some point.
     
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  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    How is that mishandling? Like I've been saying, the point of an adaptation is not to be a slavish copy, but to put the ingredients together in a new way. Just look at how the MCU movies mix and match pieces from different comics storylines to make something new, or how Batman: The Animated Series distilled more than two decades' worth of Bronze Age and post-Crisis comics elements and storylines.

    In this case, it made sense to change the location of the scene. It was a way to introduce new viewers to the space-based setting, and it was a more visually striking introduction to the series and the universe. The movie had the advantage of being a sequel (well, "interquel," since it was set during the series) to an established show, so it didn't need to start from scratch in introducing the universe -- as well as being set entirely on Mars, so that it didn't need to establish the interplanetary setting for new viewers in the way the Netflix series did.

    Anyway, I find it amusing that in the bits you call out as fanciful, you don't mention its treatment of space physics, like how the sequence seems to mistake atmosphere loss for gravity loss, or how it makes the usual fictional mistake of portraying decompression as an ongoing torrent of wind rather than a single explosive outburst that's over in moments. We all have different things that break our suspension of disbelief. The anime's treatment of microgravity was always preposterous -- having people standing on the ground and cigarette smoke convecting upward while objects were floating in midair, that sort of thing. And it had plenty of other implausibilities too, like how in the movie, the villain shoots Spike, crushes his rib cage, and throws him into a river hundreds of feet below, yet Spike is back in flawless fighting form for the climax, which seems to be only a day or two later.
     
  4. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Finished both the anime and the live-action. I enjoy both, but the adaptation completely misses the noir, completive tone of the anime.

    Also, the live-action didn't really portray the desperate nature of their jobs. In the anime, they're always hungry and broke. But that doesn't seem to be a big concern in the adaptation. It's in the opening of the show then dropped.

    I much prefer the episodic nature of the anime. Them being bounty hunters is the perfect story engine for more anthological stories. And the anime did that well.

    I didn't care for the Julia and Vicious story being the narrative backbone for Spike in the live-action. One, because I'm over season-long arcs that override individual stories in TV. Two, because it was boring and I couldn't stand either of the actors. I much prefer the way it was handled in the anime, where we get hints and bits. Then the excellent two-part finale.
     
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  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Episode 2: I'm surprised they kept Big Shot for the Bounty Hunter so authentic right down to Judy's open-fronted top. I thought for sure they'd change that, although this version doesn't show as much cleavage.

    Otherwise, they made a lot of changes this time around. The Teddy Bomber story was almost completely different, without the running gag where he kept trying to explain his reasons but nobody cared. Jet not knowing Spike's past is a major change. Anyway, it worked reasonably well as a story. The gag of not being able to hear the bomber through his mask was cute. And Cho and Shakir have pretty good chemistry.

    Spike commuting from Venus to Mars and back in the Swordfish in just a few hours seemed odd at first. I guess we did see the Swordfish operate in hyperspace once or twice, but it always struck me as more of a short-range vehicle. Although it was orbit-capable, so I guess there's no reason it couldn't reach a hyperspace gate on its own. I wonder why they even bothered to set the episode on Venus, given that they didn't do anything with that setting. Would've made more sense to set the whole thing on Mars.


    Episode 3: Unusual structure to this one, basically a 2-parter within a single hour -- the first half focusing on the doll hunt and the brothel, the second half shifting focus and bringing in Ein and the stuff with Vicious. I didn't find the writing as good or entertaining this time around, but the fight choreography is excellent.

    And Ein looks exactly right. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they're setting up Ein's nature and origins as a mystery arc, rather than just telling us up front like in the original. I note that his tag says he's from Cherious Medical, the military-front corporation from the movie.


    Episode 4: Pretty good. I do like Daniella Pineda a lot. They really rushed the exposition of Faye's backstory, but I guess they only have ten episodes. Although if I'd had my druthers, I'd have been willing to see less time spent cutting away to Vicious and Julia and instead devote the cutaways to building Faye's background as she searched for Manley.

    Still, this is the first episode where Julia got to break out of the weepy-victim box and prove that she's actually the smart one in the family. So that was good.

    On the downside, I could do without the scatological humor. Also, the bits with Spike pointing his gun at Faye's head do not feel funny in the wake of the recent Halyna Hutchins tragedy.


    Ep. 5: Largely a remake of the episode about Jet trying to find the identity of the corrupt cop who cost him his arm, which was reasonably well-done and really going all-out with the noir. Shakir is quite effective at playing the whole good-cop thing.

    Otherwise it was largely a bottle show giving Spike and Faye a chance to bounce off each other as they debated what bounty to go after. It was a surprising choice to have them end up bonding and developing mutual respect in a way their anime counterparts never did. It almost felt like they were flirting, which would be a really big change. But with so many plots being remade, it's nice to have some elements of the show where I don't know what to expect.
     
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  6. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I started rewatching some of the anime and the thought that came to mind was the live action show is somewhat like Pat Boone's cover of Tutti Frutti.:)

    I can't say for sure without going back but it seemed to me the show got less ambitious stylistically in the back half and was probably relieved to go into the comfort zone of the modern "arc thing".
     
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  7. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ha!


    I do wonder how much of that is the comfort zone of the writers, the pressures of modern TV storytelling, and Netflix's own requirements. Probably all three.

    I have the streamer's deck on what they want in their pitches, and they want to see a strong three-year story arc, minimum. (Don't ask how I got my hands on it... I have my sources.)
     
  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The OTT action, like we got in the opening scene, is one of my favorite things about the show.
    Ein is pretty much just your generic tan and white Corgi, so it's not very hard at all to find a dog who looks like him.

    Watched episode 4 this morning, and I loved it.
    I've been a big fan of Daniella Pineda since she was on The Originals, I'm still pissed she lasted one season, and she was great in this one.
    Adrienne Barbeau was a lot of fun as Murdock, although I'm think here probably wasn't a lot of scenery left by the time she was done chewing it.
    I'm don't mind the stuff with Vicious and Julia, but that could be due to the fact that I'm also a big fan of Elena Satine. My only real issue with it is that it's so disconnected from everything going on with Spike & Jet and their bounties. If there was more of an ongoing conflict between them, or at least with Spike & Jet and the Syndicate in general, it might fit a bit better.
     
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  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Episode 6: Not a fan of "we're still in VR" plots or time-loop plots as a general rule, but this wasn't too bad. An interesting idea, to take the Dr. Londes plot from the anime and tie it into the Spike-Julia arc. Although in execution it was certainly scaled down quite a lot. These past couple of episodes, it feels like a budget crunch is kicking in. We're getting a lot of shipboard material, and the location outside the clinic could not have been more backlot-y.

    I have to laugh at the people claiming that Faye is "less sexual" in this show just because her costume's not as skimpy. I don't recall any anime episodes revolving around Faye actually sleeping with someone, talking about orgasms, and so forth. She had a romance with Whitney in her flashback episode, and there was flirtation with Gren before she found out the truth, but that was about it. This episode put her sexuality front and center more than the anime ever did. (Although I could've done without the usual magic modesty-preserving bedsheets, which are always just so contrived.)

    And we have our first sign of Radical Ed! Remotely helping out the Bebop crew even before they meet her, just like in the show -- only with a longer gap before she shows up in person.


    Episode 7: A very different approach to the exploration of Faye's backstory, but an effective one. Whitney is changed from a love interest to a fake mother, a charming con artist who upends the crew's lives. It was a fun ride, as long as I don't think too much about all the henchmen who were killed in what turned out to be just a kinky roleplay between the Mink and Whitney. A lot harder to sympathize with Whitney given that. Although I guess at that point we weren't supposed to.

    Although I liked the bit where Jet was watching Kimmie's recital by telepresence while Spike was fighting goons in the background. That felt very Bebop-worthy. I do wonder how the holotechnology works, though. How was Jet seeing the recital? There was no reciprocal holo on his end.

    So Faye finally gets her ship, which has been in the titles every week, so I was wondering when it would show up. And she finds the videotape as well. Interesting how they changed things -- instead of Jet and Spike having to go to extreme lengths to find a compatible player and then getting the wrong one, here Jet already has one, because he's been established from the start as a connoisseur of old media like phonograph records. It's different, but it works. And the part they kept the same -- young Faye's video -- was just as moving here as in the anime. Brought me to tears both times.


    Episode 8: A fun script from The Middleman's Javier Grillo-Marxuach, adapting the "Pierrot Le Fou" episode fairly closely while still changing it into something else. I'd been concerned that this show would be too slavish in copying the original, but while it does have a lot of homages to the original, it has succeeded in becoming its own thing, differing largely in that the core trio are much closer, bonding more as a family, rather than just happening to hang out on the same ship and barely tolerating each other, or at least keeping any affinity they feel very close to the vest. And establishing that bond between them makes it carry more weight when that bond is broken by Spike going rogue. So it ends up having the same climax as the original -- Spike going it alone against the Pierrot -- but with its context and meaning made fresh.

    (Although they changed the Spaceland amusement park to Earthland, which actually makes a lot more sense in a society where space is the default setting.)

    Speaking of homage, there were a number of Blade Runner references, having the Pierrot quote Roy Batty's final speech in French, and having Jet name-drop the shoulder of Orion and the Tannheuser Gate. As a Middleman fan, I'm not surprised to see JG-M making pop culture references, but I wonder why he chose Blade Runner specifically. It doesn't seem to have any thematic connection to this.

    Connecting the Pierrot's origin to Ein's was surprising, and it was sad to see them leaving Ein behind. I hope there's a reconciliation there.

    Much less use of John Noble than I would've expected in the Vicious stuff. Also, if Vicious is the son of the Syndicate's head, why would he need to stage a coup? Wouldn't he already be the heir apparent? It's an odd change.
     
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  10. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    I don't mind OTT action, just the scene in the Netflix open was stupid. The thing that worked in the film (anime) version is that Spike ignores the thieves as if just a customer until he picked up the "Bang" thing and turned to the leader like he was an employee, asking "How much is this?" and unexpectedly sets it off in the guy's face, thus taking them by surprise. The Netflix version with that coin-flip jump-kick was just dumb. They'd have just shot his ass. The scene in the film is just better in every important way, punchier (even the small detail of the cans falling on the guy's head), more fun, and not dragged out as in the Netflix show.

    YMMV


    And @Christopher, pardon my French but putain la tech au tech about microgravity and science. I was writing about why I think one version of a scene works over another, not some scifi detail. I'm not engaging with those kinds of arguments beyond that. I've long since wearied of it. It never goes anywhere good and too often ends with you going radio silent whenever you get called on anything, a la (1) (2), only to poke your nose back when the smoke has cleared.
     
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  11. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    Rami too…
     
  12. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hear hear.
    SHOW US THE BOOBIES! :)
     
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  13. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was thinking how much they would be getting lambasted if it was a male mechanic with lines like "Whenever I see a good looking piece I just have to touch it." and "Yeah there's nothing here worth taking except maybe you.".
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    On the subject of fidelity vs. innovation, I like how they've let Yoko Kanno do different arrangements of the theme tune in different episodes. I liked the one where they played the vocal intro over the closing shot of the cold open and then cut to the titles after "Let's jam" -- it worked very well that way.


    Either that or just have them fully under the sheets. Although I do like female nudity, what I object to most is the artificiality, the dishonesty of artfully arranging objects to show certain body parts and hide others, or having actresses (or actors) in unnatural poses to avoid revealing too much. It just calls attention to the fakery and doesn't serve the characters well. Just let them be natural and unaffected, whether that means the sheets leave their chests bare or cover them completely. The way it was done here, with the sheet evidently spirit-gummed to the actress's breast just above the nipple, was distractingly artificial and more annoying than titillating.
     
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  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    That's pretty nearly as perfect an example of overthinking a thing as I've seen online this year, @Christopher.
     
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  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Episode 9: I could've done without a whole-episode flashback telling Spike's Syndicate backstory. The previous few episodes established that the main element that made this adaptation distinctive and novel was the closer rapport of the core trio, taking advantage of the good chemistry among the lead actors, but then they go and do an episode that has only one of the three in it. Plus I'm just not a fan of gangster stories to begin with. And Vicious is a character who works better in small doses.

    The main virtues of this one were John Cho being cool and charming and Elena Satine's singing.

    Episode 10: We get the core trio back, but the story is all about breaking them up. Given this show's shift in approach to their relationship, I would've preferred to see them come together at the end. They somewhat did in rescuing Kimmie, but then it all fell apart in a way that felt gratuitous. There was no explanation for the transition from Jet promising to help Faye find out about her past to Faye going off on her own and leaving Jet behind. And there's a double standard in Jet forgiving Faye for lying to him but being all "If I see you again I'll kill you" toward Spike. Sure, Spike's past is worse, but it seems inconsistent.

    The major change in Julia's story arc was interesting. On the one hand, I'm glad to see her given a chance to become more than just a love object and a trophy for male protagonists and seize her own agency. On the other hand, the path she's chosen to follow tarnishes her as a character, and basically reveals that she was never the ideal Spike imagined her to be. So I'm not sure I like her making that choice, though I understand it given everything that happened in the narrative.

    The scene where the mob henchwoman said "Then you should be with him" and attacked the driver of the moving car they were in was rather ridiculous. She couldn't have waited for a red light? She almost got Julia killed while trying to free her, and evidently did get herself killed. Not only was it a stupid and gratuitous scene, but a woman of color sacrificing her life so the blonde heroine can be happy is not a good look.

    And they left Ein's storyline dangling, not answering the mysteries about him, though at least they teased it for next season by having Ed hook up with Ein. Not sure how I feel about Eden Perkins as Ed yet. Their performance was pretty accurate, but Ed is so larger-than-life that it doesn't translate well to live action. Maybe Ed's behavior -- and hair -- should've been toned down just a bit.


    Speaking of hair, I found myself getting distracted in later episodes by how fake Jet's beard looked. It looks like Shakir had a real beard in a more natural shape with the longer triangular pieces glued on top of it, and that was awkward. I wish he'd just grown out and sculpted his beard for real -- again, maybe something more subtle, just suggesting the original design rather than copying it exactly, would've worked better in live action.


    Overall, I felt the show worked reasonably well. There were parts of it that didn't work for me -- too much emphasis on the mobster stuff, too much crudeness in the dialogue -- but I like the three core actors quite a bit and felt that they made the characters their own. As an adaptation, it struck a pretty good balance between homaging the original and assembling its ingredients into something new, something that adds to and complements the original rather than just redundantly duplicating it. The imitation was strongest in the first episode, but after that they let the show develop into its own thing, so that even the more direct recreations later on were placed in a new context or given elements that contrasted with the original. On the whole, I'm pretty satisfied with it and am hoping for more.

    Assuming there's a season 2, I hope they don't focus so heavily on the Syndicate stuff, though it did feel like they were planning to continue Julia's story -- and the fact that Vicious is still alive at the end means he'll probably continue as a regular next season, unfortunately. But it looks like the emphasis may shift. Ed wanted Spike to look for Volaju, the villain from the movie, so I suspect next season's arc will focus on Cherious Medical and its weapons development, perhaps building to an episode-10 climax based on the movie's climactic tower fight. Which means we might see Elektra added to the cast next season.
     
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  17. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    I thought episodes 9 and 10 were weak when they really needed to be among the strongest to maintain viewer interest for the next season. I don't know if Julia was always supposed to be at base a toxic sociopath or whether she is more a product of her environment. She is supposed to have Russian ancestry so perhaps she grew up among Bratva types.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think the point of her arc across these two episodes is that she was hardened by her experiences. She started out as this shy, innocent makeup girl, but her years of abuse at Vicious's hands made her harden herself to survive, and when she learned to play the mobsters' power games herself in order to get out from under Vicious, she decided she liked it.

    So basically it's a counterpoint to Spike's arc, where he grows up as a ruthless mob killer but then finds a line he regrets crossing and decides to walk away from the life before it destroys any more of his soul.
     
  19. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was just looking through the "coming soon" books on Amazon and stumbled across this and this, and already added them to my Google Play wishlist.
     
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  20. Q2UnME

    Q2UnME Commodore Commodore

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    Any word on this getting picked up for a second season yet? I enjoyed it, would gladly watch more...
     
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