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Lingering Questions from 'The Dark Knight'...

I thought he should have said "The difference is that I don't need guns". That might have been more attune with the character.
 
They had already gotten his statements.

But did he testify?

Gordon has a line near the end where he says everything has fallen apart.

Everything has fallen apart because Dent's reputation is trashed and his repuation is critical to getting their work done. If what he did got out it'd but his credibility into question, releasing the mafia. That's why Batman "sacraficed" himself -so that Dent's repuation could stand not cause all of their work to be undone.

As for Lau and him testifying. I'm not sure and I've not enough legal know-how to know what happens when your witness makes statements and he's killed by those he's testifying against before he can testify. What happens to his statements and deposition? Also the judge who agreed to the absurd number of charges dies so that's another wrench in the plan.

But, strictly from what we're given in the movie, Gordon believes Dent's tarnished reputation will ruin their plans and un-do all of their work. So Gordon, in the context of the universe of the movie, believes that all of their plans can still work so long as Dent's reputation was maintained. That's why Batman took the blame for the deaths of the "5" people. It keeps Dent's reputation clean so their plans can work.

If their plans couldn't work if Dent is clean or not then Bat's sacrafice means nothing -other than redeeming himself in his mind for killing.


Lao's testimony would likely still be admissible evidence. Since Lao wouldn't be available to testify himself, his prior statement would be hearsay, which is usually not allowed in court because of the Constitutional right to confront witnesses against you at trial. There are a couple exceptions to the rule against hearsay, though, including two relevant to TDK.

[1] Prior testimony: usually used when the witness has died or disappeared; here, so long as the unavailable witness made some sort of statement under oath, it can probably be used at trial if the defendant had the opportunity to question the witness when the statement was made.
[2] forfeiture by wrongdoing: basically, the testimony of an unavailable witness is admissible if the defendant is responsible for the witness' absence (death).

Also, as to Lao's abduction itself; it's a perfectly legitimate way to bring someone within the jurisdiction of the United States, even if the kidnapping was done by agents of the US government. Check out United States v. Alvarez-Machain, 504 U.S. 655 (1992) if you want to be thoroughly amused and/or horrified at the crazy shit the United States government can do.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you need legal advice, go talk to a licensed attorney.
 
Thanks for the info.

My guess too is the new DA will probably try to cut deals with the lower-rung guys to testify against their bosses.

It probably helps that both Maroni and the Chechen were killed. If they have to release the mobsters, they'll be looking for some new leaders.
 
Thanks for the info.

My guess too is the new DA will probably try to cut deals with the lower-rung guys to testify against their bosses.

It probably helps that both Maroni and the Chechen were killed. If they have to release the mobsters, they'll be looking for some new leaders.

I think that was more-or-less their plan. Figuring that the higher-level guys would make bail easily but they'll make deals with the lower-level guys to testify against their bosses in exchange for protection or lighter sentences.
 
A little OT but is there any parody film where you see Batman trying to sneak away while in the middle of a conversation to get that they turn their heads and he's gone effect?
 
A little OT but is there any parody film where you see Batman trying to sneak away while in the middle of a conversation to get that they turn their heads and he's gone effect?

I think that may have happen once or twice in the The Batman and The Animated Season?
 
A little OT but is there any parody film where you see Batman trying to sneak away while in the middle of a conversation to get that they turn their heads and he's gone effect?

I think it was either during 'KnightFall' or 'The Prodigal' (when Dick spent a month as The Batman) that Gordon turned, saw he hadn't left yet, and said something like : "You know, HE usually disappears before I complete my sentences."

Another one I recall is in Kingdom Come, when Supes pulls that on an aging Bruce, who says "So that's what it feels like."

OT, but funny : In MASH, would-be superspy Colonel Flagg breaks his leg trying to pull a similar vanishing act.

Edit : Just wanted to add : Maybe Gordon and Batman are counting on the charade to protect Harvey's rep not lasting forever. Eventually, the middlemen will turn on the big guys, and the prosecutions will go beyond the stages wherein Harvey's sanity and actions have any impact on their appeals. A disillusioned public can simply take in the truth : Harvey Dent's life and mind were taken by the actions of the Joker.
 
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^ OT: It was in Knightfall and happed with the Azrael Batman I belive. I seem to remember that from that trade.
 
On the subject of who Two-Face killed, I saw the movie a second time yesterday, and right as the scene where Maroni gets into the car starts, this time I saw something I didn't the first time: On the left side of the screen, as Maroni gets in the car on the right side, drawing the attention that way, I caught another of his men getting yanked off camera as he gets in. So that's one of the people who was presumably killed. Not 100%, but I could see it. He could have just knocked him out, I suppose.

JacksonArcher, I agree, your line would have been better than the hockey pads one.
 
So many comments on the "corrupt" cops. I thought they were being threatened by the Joker with harm to their loved ones if they (the cops) did not cooperate.

Corrupt? Maybe. Coerced? Oh yeah.
 
It looked more like Wurtz was the typical 'the system's rotten so that's why I am' cop, while Ramirez had been gotten to about her mother's medical bills.
 
So many comments on the "corrupt" cops. I thought they were being threatened by the Joker with harm to their loved ones if they (the cops) did not cooperate.

Corrupt? Maybe. Coerced? Oh yeah.

Dent remarked on at least two or three occasions about investigating both Wurtz and Ramirez while he was at Internal Affairs, so they were corrupt long before the Joker came along.
 
So many comments on the "corrupt" cops. I thought they were being threatened by the Joker with harm to their loved ones if they (the cops) did not cooperate.

Corrupt? Maybe. Coerced? Oh yeah.

Dent remarked on at least two or three occasions about investigating both Wurtz and Ramirez while he was at Internal Affairs, so they were corrupt long before the Joker came along.
Still, I think Ramirez was someone who was stuck between a rock and a hard place and had her hand forced, whereas Wurtz just didn't care.
 
In that specific incident with Rachel, certainly. However, he was arguing that she wasn't corrupt at all, only threatened by the Joker, but if Dent was right about her past activities that's obviously not true.

Heck, she even says "they got to me early with my mother's medical bills" implying that she was already working for the mob long before that, and either she or Wurtz were the ones who tipped off the mob that the money bust was coming down.
 
Here's one then : Was Gordon merely stubborn in keeping them on, or just so desperate in needing warm bodies that he overlooked the knives in his back?
 
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