• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Lindelof On Eve Scene (minor spoilers, hysteria, hyperbole)

I posted this in the thread about the Cumberbatch shower scene, but since the bulk of the post is more relevant to this thread, I'll repost it here too:
____________________________

Apart from obviously being there for titillation too, the Carol Marcus underwear scene did serve a purpose. Throughout the preceding parts of the film, we see Kirk being confident to the point of arrogance and extremely flirty with women. He was having a meaningless one night stand with the cat babes, he gave F-Me glances to the women at Starfleet HQ and the bar, and he was making juvenile comments about Carol's appearance when she boarded the shuttle to join the crew on Enterprise. But now he tries the same schtick by glancing at Carol while she changes, and she'll have none of it. She's not intimidated or impressed by his glances, and gives him nothing in return except the sign to quit gawking and an order to turn around.

Kirk is flustered by this and doesn't quite know how to react, except to do what she tells him. This plays into his continuing decline in confidence throughout the film as he is rejected or slapped down by his superiors and peers. He's not able to get by on winging it or impressing people with his overconfidence any more. He has to work to get what he wants and to earn respect.

It also establishes Carol as a strong presence who is not embarrassed about who she is, won't fall for any cheap flirty tricks, and doesn't put up with anyone's BS. This makes Kirk admire her even more and foreshadows their eventual love for each other. Carol is not like the other women Kirk has been attracted to. She's not a cheap date or a one night stand. She's an intelligent, strong, talented individual whom he respects for those qualities, and not just for her looks for a change, though that appeals to him as well.

Kirk hasn't met a woman this formidable and intriguing to him since Uhura rejected him completely in the bar in the first film. Gaela (the Orion) he used to further his own ends in the Kobayashi Maru test and then uncaringly disposed of without a second thought, but Uhura he kept pursuing for three years until he came to understand that she loved Spock, and Spock was someone he came to admire as well.

Oddly enough, the underwear scene is sort of a shorter and more blunt version of Bond and Vesper's witty banter on the train in Casino Royale that established her to be his equal, and that didn't shy away from sexual implications either. It might seem counterintuitive to convey these kinds of ideas through a two-second underwear shot, but IMO it works in film and TV tradition of "show, don't tell."

I liked what you wrote, Locutus. But none of this will mean anything or come to pass unless the current writers grow the hell up and stop tying to entice the 14-year old boys to the franchise.

I also would like to see a woman included in the writing team for Trek 3.
 
Auto-correct keeps telling me there's only one 'o' in ogle. Spell check says its wrong with two o's. :shrug:
 
Not wearing a thick sweater is considered "showing them" and free license for you to ogle? I'm sorry, oogle.

Depends on the temperature. I jest. What I mean is, don't wear a bra if you don't want to. Hell, get the laws changed and don't wear a sweater if you don't want to. I don't get the comment about it. I don't have breasts, but I guess people wear bras for a reason and that's not just evil man-tyrants.
 
I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.
 
I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.
Which is exactly the way I read it when you said it the first time.
 
I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.

Oh, so you dislike them because they're uncomfortable, then ? If so, then sorry for taking it way in the wrong direction.
 
I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.

Perhaps something with force fields and tractor beams, that matches your shoes?
 
The hair was to make her look more like Sally Kellerman. ;)

Some people probably still think Cucumberpatch is playing Gary Mitchell. He's just pretending to be Khan as part of a very elaborate ruse.

I liked what you wrote, Locutus. But none of this will mean anything or come to pass unless the current writers grow the hell up and stop tying to entice the 14-year old boys to the franchise.

I also would like to see a woman included in the writing team for Trek 3.

Sadly, there's a dearth of women writing for scifi genre films at the moment. I wish that weren't the case, because like you I think a female perspective on the writing staff in the next film would be a positive influence.

Regardless, I'd like to see the writing staff shaken up a bit next time. Not necessarily by getting rid of anyone (I think Orci especially is important as the resident Trek lore expert, and he always works with Kurtzman), but maybe by bringing in some new blood to keep things from getting stale and avoiding the issues you mention above.

I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.

They tried phasing it out in the 22nd century, but they found that the hand bra was even more of a nuisance.

[images removed - M']
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I never said anything about man-tyrants! But I loathe bras and I was disappointed to see that they have not come up with anything better in the future.

No kidding.

Besides, even if there is some sort of boob support 300 years from now, I doubt it'll be something like today's Victoria Secret underwire push-up molded bra! :lol:

Or for the sake of my gggggg granddaughters, I hope not!
 
Perhaps something with force fields and tractor beams, that matches your shoes?

Jimi, you're a visionary.

They tried phasing it out in the 22nd century, but they found that the hand bra was even more of a nuisance.

You, however, are terrible.

Besides, even if there is some sort of boob support 300 years from now, I doubt it'll be something like today's Victoria Secret underwire push-up molded bra! :lol:

That's seriously what I was thinking during that scene.
 
Auto-correct keeps telling me there's only one 'o' in ogle. Spell check says its wrong with two o's. :shrug:

Yeah, sorry. I never use that word, and English is not my first language. :p

Yeah, it's ogle. I was just being shitty.

Oh, by all means, please correct me when I make mistakes.

So it's been a day or two and I've cooled down a little and I wanted to apologize for getting all curt with you. I try not to be like that but sometimes gender stuff makes me go a bit :klingon: and I needed to take a step back. Sorry for the bad exchange we had, and I hope we have better ones in the future! :)
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top