Lindelof On Eve Scene (minor spoilers, hysteria, hyperbole)

[Belz...]

Not by far. They barely show a penis unless it's Hodor (because women REALLY want to see that). A man's ass? Sure. Penis? Nope.

Do they show female genitalia ? I doubt it.

 

[indranee]

I actually have more of a problem with something else Hollywood keeps on doing. Was channel-flipping just now and caught She's Out of My League on E!.

Now why is that formula never flipped? Why do we never see a hot guy trying to get with an ugly girl? Why do you think that is? Because -- let's say it together -- HW makes movies for the male demographic and most men will not pay to go see an ugly girl on screen. Oh and Alice Eve is definitely not, uhh, malnourished in that movie.

Btw, she sported an American accent in this. So she's perfectly capable of doing one. So what's with the British accent in STID?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Does gratuitous have to be synonymous with offensive?

Not unless one is a prude.

 

[AbramsIsSatan]

anyone got a link to the Alice Eve Janeway photoshop? LMAO

 

[sj4iy]

Not by far. They barely show a penis unless it's Hodor (because women REALLY want to see that). A man's ass? Sure. Penis? Nope.

Do they show female genitalia ? I doubt it.

Yes. The Red Priestess gave birth to a shadow demon and we see absolutely everything. She's not the only one (several prostitutes, as well), but the most prominent one.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I notice the topic title has been revised.

 

[indranee]

For me, the problem lies in the fact that 1) they only showed a second or two of AE naked and Kirk gazing blankly at her, and 2) Cumberbatch actually complained about the fact that they made him build up to the naked chest scene and then cut it.

I call that discrimination and blatant pandering to the male demographics. Although, I'm sure there are many men who wouldn't mind staring blankly at Cumberbatch's naked chest.

It better be in the deleted scenes, dammit.

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://teamcoco.com/video/conan-highlight-showering-cumberbatch

 

[sj4iy]

For me, the problem lies in the fact that 1) they only showed a second or two of AE naked and Kirk gazing blankly at her, and 2) Cumberbatch actually complained about the fact that they made him build up to the naked chest scene and then cut it.

I call that discrimination and blatant pandering to the male demographics. Although, I'm sure there are many men who wouldn't mind staring blankly at Cumberbatch's naked chest.

It better be in the deleted scenes, dammit.

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://teamcoco.com/video/conan-highlight-showering-cumberbatch

Oh man, that's not even fair that it isn't in the film XD Loved it, especially with the new music

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It is my photoshop, I made it AbramsisSatan.

And now people are facebook tagging me with articles about the heinous underwear scene

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I just watched the Conan clip...and I got it.

No one at Paramount or Bad Robot is really embarrassed or apologizing for the Eve thing at all. Seeing that a little controversy erupted, they're deliberately drawing attention to it.

Off to a slower than expected start last weekend, they're getting a few days of post-release free publicity out of a fabricated controversy that just happens to revolve around images of a well-endowed young blond woman in a bikini - while repurposing the cut footage of Cumberbatch on national TV.

Yeah, it may be a little desperate - but it's clever nonetheless.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Yes. The Red Priestess gave birth to a shadow demon and we see absolutely everything. She's not the only one (several prostitutes, as well), but the most prominent one.

There's no genitalia actually shown in the birth scene. It's very strategically filmed. Plus, Carice van Houten was wearing a prosthetic stomach that probably stretched down and provided cover further down. The Hodor full frontal scene was done with a prosthetic penis. Alfie Allen, who plays Theon, on the other hand, actually went the full monty, as have some of the female cast.

 

[Dream]

For me, the problem lies in the fact that 1) they only showed a second or two of AE naked and Kirk gazing blankly at her, and 2) Cumberbatch actually complained about the fact that they made him build up to the naked chest scene and then cut it.

I call that discrimination and blatant pandering to the male demographics. Although, I'm sure there are many men who wouldn't mind staring blankly at Cumberbatch's naked chest.

Naked chest scene or not, he was suppose to be playing someone who was in perfect physical condition, so it is expected for him to be in great shape. It would be out of character if he wasn't.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I just watched the Conan clip...and I got it.

No one at Paramount or Bad Robot is really embarrassed or apologizing for the Eve thing at all. Seeing that a little controversy erupted, they're deliberately drawing attention to it.

Off to a slower than expected start last weekend, they're getting a few days of post-release free publicity out of a fabricated controversy that just happens to revolve around images of a well-endowed young blond woman in a bikini - while repurposing the cut footage of Cumberbatch on national TV.

Yeah, it may be a little desperate - but it's clever nonetheless.

Yah, I think you're right.

I can't even imagine another movie getting hauled over the coals about one woman in her underwear like this.

I'm also getting facebook tags about how Khan has been "white washed".

LEAVE MY STAR TREK ALONE PEOPLE.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah, I mean isn't it a wonderful bit of serendipity that Abrams's response to the Eve-in-her-underwear complaints is "I know, I'll take the sting out by showing Benedict showering on Conan tomorrow night!"

Because, that's totally intuitive and clearly a spur of the moment response.

No, they didn't plan this. What they've done is taken something that caused a little bit of a stir and done their best to elevate it into a high profile, if harmless, "controversy."

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Good on him.

 

[indranee]

Yeah, it was the best way to deal with the raging storm (in the itty-bitty teacup).

 

[HaventGotALife]

In and of itself, attraction is not a bad thing. When girls get the message that this is the only thing that gives them worth, then I think the culture should examine itself.

Yes but that's not the message that this movie sends. Carol Marcus is portrayed as a capable scientist, a woman with a conscience who even stands up to her own father and a woman who is brave and risks her own life to disarm the torpedo and save McCoy. There is also Uhura. And this movie isn't even particularly progressive on that front.

My problem with your posts on the subject is not that I think there is no problem regarding the portrayal of women in mainstream movies and TV - the Bechdel test alone shows that there is - but rather that you hang an awful lot on this one short scene which may be gratuitous but is harmless.

My point is that in the 23rd century, a progressive universe, this scene should not be done. I think she is presented as eye candy both in the advertisements and in the film. I disagree with your assessment of the character. In the same scene she is deactivating a torpedo, Bones is hitting on her. Her whole character is not taken seriously because of her body.

And it is a symptom of a larger disease. I have tried to make that clear in the back-and-forth, but it gets hard when you are being attacked as A) Biased and desperate, B) A person with body issues, C) as an nuisance that is making something out of nothing, of D) as someone who isn't manly enough because I make issue of this. A lot gets lost when I am trying to make a point, and quotes take a certain point and use it out of context. People are fighting me on this. This is the most heated debate I've had on these boards. I don't understand why.

And if you agree it's gratuitious, then the larger point about the disease can be made. This is supposed to be the future, a hopeful future, and instead of a world that is equal, we don't see a single person who is a main cast member that is treated as more than arm candy for someone else, this scene being the culmination of that frustration in the movie. I was trying to give context to why this scene offends me, and that has morphed into me seeing "an awful lot in one scene." I was trying to have a larger debate as well, something that never materialized.

Now as a man, I am insulted by these images. I am insulted that I am seen as some drooling frat boy that just wants to see naked women and get drunk all the time. My experience with this movie was that I laughed and muttered "completely useless scene." I wanted to walk out of the theater, and stopped myself, because I knew I would have to pay again to see the rest of it. When we see men's magazines, women are plastered all over them. It's as if I never have a thought that doesn't include naked women. I never want to know how about health or politics or comedy. Someone says "We cater to men," it automatically means beer, pizza, tv, sports, and women. It means I can't watch other popular science fiction without being offended. It means that I cannot watch a comedy about men without seeing those images (Hangover III) or having a stupid Dad that just goes along with whatever the wife says because she bitches a lot and he can't take her incessant whining. If that appeals to you, fine. It doesn't to me. And I avoid things that say "we cater to men" for that purpose. This movie caters to men.

Yes, well, I do see your point and the gender stereotyping is something that bugs me, too, but again, you're interpreting all this into a scene in a movie that doesn't really fit the somewhat one-sided description you're making here.

Most Hollywood blockbusters cater to men, by the way. That's not something that sets this movie apart. In fact, I'd say it's less lop-sided than many others.

Well, you may think that it's not related, but I am a human being with experiences and emotions. I was talking about my personal reaction to movie, this scene. Not what is found in science, but my reaction to it in real time. Have you heard of the straw breaking the camel's back? This is a growing frustration and that is why I made the larger point. And I have expectations for this movie, that I don't have for others. I have a secret for you--I don't watch summer blockbusters. I watched this one because it's Star Trek and I have watched every incarnation since its inception. The movie could've been released in February, and I would've found a way to get to it.

 

[sj4iy]

Yes. The Red Priestess gave birth to a shadow demon and we see absolutely everything. She's not the only one (several prostitutes, as well), but the most prominent one.

There's no genitalia actually shown in the birth scene. It's very strategically filmed. Plus, Carice van Houten was wearing a prosthetic stomach that probably stretched down and provided cover further down. The Hodor full frontal scene was done with a prosthetic penis. Alfie Allen, who plays Theon, on the other hand, actually went the full monty, as have some of the female cast.

I've watched this show several times over. It's an undeniable fact that we see 10 women naked for every man. It's not even arguable, women are devalued in that show. There's a reason for it, even if it does go overboard. I'm not arguing against it, because I like the show how it is, but I'm just stating the completely true fact about male vs women nudity in that show. I'm not going to post videos or pictures, because that's obviously not allowed, but they are there if you want to see. Huffington post even has an article containing a compilation video of every nude scene combined. Prosthetics or not, you see something.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Context matters. And when Kirk is in bed with two women, it shows him as a womanizer. We are not shown why he is in bed with them, except that he flirts with every pretty face that walks by (the scene with Spock where they talk about the 5-year mission, the scene with Bones talking about the Kobiashi Maru). I don't think that is more than a pop culture representation of James Kirk.

Gee, I wonder where pop culture came up with that:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vKN7ZvmvBw[/YT]

It's almost as if people watched the show and saw him snog every attractive female in the vicinity.

There are cases of being forced to kiss, of women kissing him, and of 20 minutes of talking to a woman before a kiss happens. It's a lot more interesting than that.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And if you agree it's gratuitious, then the larger point about the disease can be made. This is supposed to be the future, a hopeful future, and instead of a world that is equal, we don't see a single person who is a main cast member that is treated as more than arm candy for someone else, this scene being the culmination of that frustration in the movie.

What! The only thing the main characters in this movie are is arm candy?

That sounds to me like you're just hating on the movie and looking for noble reasons to do so.