Life On Mars: "Out Here In the Fields" 10/9 - Grading & Discussion

[firehawk12]

That's the thing though, he's already SEEN the impossible - the WTC towers still standing.
I mean, maybe I'm sentimental or whatever, but I think the very existence of the WTC would be enough to make you reconsider everything you know. Honestly, I think the station scene would have worked if they placed the WTC scene AFTER.

He leaves the station and is still unconvinced. He decides that there's ONE thing about the future that he does know - 9/11 - so he decides to go to the WTC to confirm that they're gone. But, in fact, they're there and "OMG".

For me, it would have been much more effective in that order.

 

[chardman]

I'll give it a chance, but the first pilot they did was utter shite and they seem to have completely missed the point and the soul of the original.

I'd be very surprised if this "revised" version isn't a pile of shit aswell, Harvey Keitel notwithstanding. Hey, they still have Fatty McNocharisma (over)filling the shoes of John Simm, so it'll suck plain and simple.

I'm more or less in agreement, doubly so about Keitel. I'm still wtf about making the villian a twin, and dumbing down/explaining most the jokes, as if we Yanks aren't smart enough to understand them otherwise. The only thing the US version does better, is putting a lot more into portraying the time period. Redressing such a large street scene, with so many extras, cars, etc. Really convincing. Very accurate. Showing the WTC towers was especially effective. Brought a tear to my eye. Other than that... meh.

And just so you know... I wasn't already a fan of the original, so I'm not speaking from a pro-original bias. In fact, I saw my first episode of the British version just last night, after watching the American version. I might watch the US version from time to time, just for the atmosphere and nostalgia, but I'm definitely going to get and watch every ep of the UK original.

 

[McCoy]

The only reason for the tantrum in the office was to give Hunt a reason to hit him. That just didn't play out as fluently as it did in the UK version.

 

[Dude]

As much as I do like the concept, I really think they could have done without the Sci-fi element altogether. If they wanted to do a gritty 70s cop drama, do a gritty 70s cop drama.

I think half of the premise revolves around the tension between the police in the early 70s and 21st century. Two very different styles of policework. Whoever came up with the original idea was very perceptive in this regard. It's not a gritty 70s cop drama, its a drama about a 21st century cop trying to function in the 70s, before most of the procedural reforms really took effect.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

That's the thing though, he's already SEEN the impossible - the WTC towers still standing.
I mean, maybe I'm sentimental or whatever, but I think the very existence of the WTC would be enough to make you reconsider everything you know.

Well, among other things at various times he questions whether he's sane and whether he's conscious.

As viewers of this stuff we're a bit...I'm not sure what word is best - not quite "jaded" and not "sophisticated" but something in that area - but presented with this kind of a premise we buy into it pretty easily. Based on the conventions of genre entertainment we've come to expect the characters to keep their balance a great deal more easily than is probably believable.

The fact is, we don't wake up thirty-five years in the past. No one ever has, there's no reason for any human being to expect that they ever will and absolutely no framework for understanding such a thing if it were to happen. So the fact that the character behaves erratically and in contradictory fashion from minute to minute rather than processing and accepting it in a rational manner, seems completely believable to me.

The one thing I found implausible was that the detectives and particularly Gretchen Mol's character would accept and work with the new guy at all when every second sentence out of his mouth from the moment of his arrival is apparently demented. Mol's character even finds him attractive, which is a counterintuitive reaction to someone who behaves in a continually delusional way from the word "go," no matter how good looking he may be. I mean, so far she hasn't had a one-minute private conversation with him on any topic at any point without him starting to tell his preposterous fantasy/lie/delusion again and again.

 

[Super Grover]

As much as I do like the concept, I really think they could have done without the Sci-fi element altogether. If they wanted to do a gritty 70s cop drama, do a gritty 70s cop drama.

I think half of the premise revolves around the tension between the police in the early 70s and 21st century. Two very different styles of policework. Whoever came up with the original idea was very perceptive in this regard. It's not a gritty 70s cop drama, its a drama about a 21st century cop trying to function in the 70s, before most of the procedural reforms really took effect.

I get that, but look at Mad Men, they're able to showcase the differences in time periods without having to use the crutch of A visitor from the 21st century to show us the error of our ways. The characters go on as if this was normal, because to them it is. You the viewer, are able to sit there and say, "Wow, were we really able to get away with this?"

I think one thing that will happen in this LOM, is that the US Sam Tyler won't be so "by the book." He'll start to gel more with the times. He will probably think planting a little evidence as long as the right people get put away is ok. If he's in there long enough he might get caught by the Knapp Commission.

 

[Dude]

As much as I do like the concept, I really think they could have done without the Sci-fi element altogether. If they wanted to do a gritty 70s cop drama, do a gritty 70s cop drama.

I think half of the premise revolves around the tension between the police in the early 70s and 21st century. Two very different styles of policework. Whoever came up with the original idea was very perceptive in this regard. It's not a gritty 70s cop drama, its a drama about a 21st century cop trying to function in the 70s, before most of the procedural reforms really took effect.

I get that, but look at Mad Men, they're able to showcase the differences in time periods without having to use the crutch of A visitor from the 21st century to show us the error of our ways. The characters go on as if this was normal, because to them it is. You the viewer, are able to sit there and say, "Wow, were we really able to get away with this?"

I think one thing that will happen in this LOM, is that the US Sam Tyler won't be so "by the book." He'll start to gel more with the times. He will probably think planting a little evidence as long as the right people get put away is ok. If he's in there long enough he might get caught by the Knapp Commission.

A fair statement, but I think the huge changes in Western law enforcement are really highlighted by the conceit of this show (the UK version, at least, and hopefully the American version as well). A gritty 70s cop show really wouldn't do what Mad Men does, because many modern cop shows don't show anything different. By having a realistic portrayal of a 21st century cop aside the realistic portrayal of the 70s version, the change really stands out.

btw, I think Knapp was in the late 60s, but I'm too lazy to go look it up...

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Surely they had civilian jeeps in the 70's?

 

[Super Grover]

Probably military surplus if you could get them.

Does anyone else prefer Sam's Brown jacket from the first pilot over the Black one?

 

[Super Grover]

btw, I think Knapp was in the late 60s, but I'm too lazy to go look it up...

If you believe Wikipedia, Knapp was formed in 70, hearings didn't start till 71. It was the movie that came out in 73.

 

[Jim Steele]

If they wanted to do a gritty 70s cop drama, do a gritty 70s cop drama.

Which would miss the point of this story completely. It's about Sam Tyler trying to figure out if he's "mad, in a coma, or back in time", and having to deal with the almost alien world around him at the same time (hence the metaphor in the title).

Seriously, if you're interested, watch the original. It gets the point across much better, and doesn't assume the audience is as thick as pigshit like both versions of the US pilot do.


On topic, watched this last night. It's shit. Has none of the subtly or depth of the original, and even Harvey Keitel manages to be a rubbish Gene Hunt. Maybe I'm just spoiled by Glenister, but ours is definitive. I just can't accept anyone else in the role, especially not when their lines aren't anywhere near as witty. Talking about Keitel, has he had a stroke or something? My ears are no strangers to American accents, least of all his, but half the time I could barely figure out what he was saying.

Points for their use of the twin towers, that had a lot of impact and to my surprise, the sight of them made me start to well up for a nanosecond. Weird. I don't think the shot at the end of the episode was needed though.

 

[firehawk12]

That's the thing though, he's already SEEN the impossible - the WTC towers still standing.
I mean, maybe I'm sentimental or whatever, but I think the very existence of the WTC would be enough to make you reconsider everything you know.

Well, among other things at various times he questions whether he's sane and whether he's conscious.

As viewers of this stuff we're a bit...I'm not sure what word is best - not quite "jaded" and not "sophisticated" but something in that area - but presented with this kind of a premise we buy into it pretty easily. Based on the conventions of genre entertainment we've come to expect the characters to keep their balance a great deal more easily than is probably believable.

The fact is, we don't wake up thirty-five years in the past. No one ever has, there's no reason for any human being to expect that they ever will and absolutely no framework for understanding such a thing if it were to happen. So the fact that the character behaves erratically and in contradictory fashion from minute to minute rather than processing and accepting it in a rational manner, seems completely believable to me.

I'm looking at it from a story structure point of view - save the big reveal for the end, not the beginning. That's basic dramatic structure.

I guess they wanted something catching for the first commercial break to try to keep people on board... and if that's the case, I blame American television formats more than anything else I guess.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Average for me, tho for others it would be Above Average.

Pretty much what I expected: slickly produced, energetic, stylish, quality production. Harvey Keitel is a hoot. Jason O'Mera can carry a series as a lead. The secondary characters are intriguing due to good casting. I even like Lisa Bonet, who I'd expected to be an annoying lightweight (in fact, it dissapoints me that she's on the wrong side of the temporal rift to be a strong recurring character).

I've seen so many cases of botched casting undermining a show that I don't want to discount this factor in making this series work - that bloodbath of almost 100% recasting earlier on seems to have paid off.

But there's something about the premise that just fails to make me care enough to keep watching, probably because I don't care about cop shows and I resent "sci fi" shows that use the sci fi as mere window dressing when I'm hungry for something really full-on sci fi, not embarassed by the genre or shy about it or trying to wrap it up in a safer, more palatable genre.

The two options here are that Tyler is in a coma, which is a boring, stupid idea, or that he is time-travelling, which having no mechanism behind it other than unexplained magic, is only slightly more interesting than the coma option. I really don't care about either outcome so I'm not motivated to stick around to find out what the answer is.

I can see why they don't want to continue the girlfriend-threatened-by-serial-killer plotline indefinitely, but the resolution here was a big wtf? moment for me. She conveniently decides to communicate via radio just at the point when Tyler might have killed the kid? Not good plotting, too obvious and manipulative. And then the episode ends abruptly, kind of fizzled out rather than ending. I hope the writing improves, because so far it looks like the actors, the cute cultural references, and the production design are carrying the show.

So have fun with this one folks. The Nielsens were good and I have a hunch the audience might be more loyal for this than for other shows, largely the cop-show-watching crowd that likes the novelty of the 70s styling and cultural references, and could give a flying flip about time travel.

A gritty 70s cop show really wouldn't do what Mad Men does, because many modern cop shows don't show anything different.

They don't? The one thing I definitely liked was the Mad Men-esque fun of seeing people behave in ways they couldn't get away with now. Life on Mars made me want to see a historical cop show, but without any sci fi angle, and if the 70s are too modern, how about the 20s or 30s? That could be a lot of fun.

The lead should bet on sports and buy up some stocks (maybe grab some collectibles for down the road) to make a better life for himself in 1973.

Why would the guy continue to be a cop at all? If he's like most guys I know, he remembers the outcome of sports events all the way back to the 70s and earlier. Place some big bets and then use the winnings to start buying stock in companies like "Apple" and "Microsoft." Put the whole thing in a trust with himself (as a child) as beneficiary and if he ever gets zapped back to his own time, he can take it with him.

To those complaining about the "sci-fi elements" (ie Temis) - I don't know about the new pilot, but try watching the original and getting your facts straight.

Nah, the premise is too boring for me to ever bother. Either they should have amped up the sci-fi or dropped it completely.

If this show wants to survive, I really hope TPTB starts to differenciate from the "mother show"...

Nah, they don't need to bother. Hardly anyone in America knows there's an original version.

 

[Dude]

A gritty 70s cop show really wouldn't do what Mad Men does, because many modern cop shows don't show anything different.

They don't? The one thing I definitely liked was the Mad Men-esque fun of seeing people behave in ways they couldn't get away with now. Life on Mars made me want to see a historical cop show, but without any sci fi angle, and if the 70s are too modern, how about the 20s or 30s? That could be a lot of fun.

So NYPD Blue didn't show cops smashing in doors without warrants, occasional physical interrogations, and such?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just watched the episode. Holy shit...this show ROCKS! I frickin' LOVE it! I hope it lasts ten seasons.

I think I'm glad they shifted from LA to New York. I've never seen the original pilot, but I don't see how it could have improved on this, Colm Meaney or no. Not that any of you should be surprised to hear me say this, given my well known obsession with NYC. They even filmed on location.

And no, I've never seen the UK version. I'm sure UK viewers would prefer it to this, but that's neither here nor there. Everybody likes the version they started with, and for me, it's this. (I don't get BBC America anyway)

And who woulda thought...in 1973, Sam's driving Bumblebee!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I guess they wanted something catching for the first commercial break to try to keep people on board... and if that's the case, I blame American television formats more than anything else I guess.

I guess I'd blame that if I thought something was wrong with it, but I don't. Structurally, of course, the story is supposed to establish very early on that the character is (apparently) in 1973 and not in the present. Since it's set in New York there's probably not a visually more dramatic or deft way to do that than to show the WTC. It's actually a very clever thing to do.

Given the actual structure of the story as derived from the BBC version, there is no "big reveal" to be saved for the end of the hour; by that time throwing in a visual of the towers would not be a "big" anything - just a passing bit of visual intrigue.

And no, I've never seen the UK version. I'm sure UK viewers would prefer it to this, but that's neither here nor there. Everybody likes the version they started with, and for me, it's this.

That makes sense.

 

[firehawk12]

Right, that's the point. In the UK version, going to the police station was the big dramatic moment. It's meant to be uncanny, especially since we've seen the modern version of the station already. That's the big reveal.

There wasn't a reason for them to keep the police station segment in the US version if the WTC was meant to achieve the same effect... and if I remember, the US version didn't even feature the modern police station at all. It's a moment of dislocation that doesn't pay off, especially in light of the WTC shot.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

and if I remember, the US version didn't even feature the modern police station at all.

No, it did.

 

[firehawk12]

Ah, right. So yeah, we don't even get to see Sam acting as the boss in his own office.
In the UK version, his overreaction makes sense in the context of the 2004 scenes where you see him not only in the police station but in the office that Hunt occupies in his 1973 fantasy.

There's none of that in the re-shot US version. Which is odd, because I'm pretty sure that in the LA pilot, they did have scenes of Sam in the modern office.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The NYC version *did* have scenes set in the 2008 precinct. But Sam didn't seem to be the *boss* there. He was just another detective, I think.

Isn't the UK Sam supposed to be a DCI in the present, and a DI in the past?