Life on Earth

[Myasishchev]

When you're the president of the Federation, the toast always falls butter side down.

This summer, the question will be answered: In the 24th century, has the 5 second rule been amended?

 

[Arpy]

Silly me. I thought a story set on 24th century Earth could be about complex thought and emotion...sex, friendship, politics, philosophy...exploring the unknown possibilities of our existence here on Earth. But no, it has to be Towering Inferno in book form.

PS: And, damn it, the butter lands butter-side up because in the future we'll butter our bread on the bottom or face thermo-nuclear war!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If it's anything like that "New Human" crap that Gene invented, I can do without it. That was even more wishy-washy than "Ship's Counselor" from TNG.

 

[Arpy]

I was intrigued by the New Human movement and wanted to learn more. Just because I wouldn't fit in with them doesn't mean they're not interesting.

But more than that. That was just one movement on Earth among many. TELL ME ABOUT THE OTHERS.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

If it's anything like that "New Human" crap that Gene invented, I can do without it.

The noosphere was originally proposed by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, not Gene Roddenberry. Indeed, every single speculative techno-social concept mentioned in GR's ST:TMP novelization (Atlantropa, new humans, the global planetran network, subterranean urbanism, museum cities, the resurrected Library of Alexandria, contract marriages, solar power satellites, Jovian androcells, etc.) has its origins outside of Hollywood, which is absolutely as it should be.

SLR

 

[KRAD]

*sighs*

*deletes "Nanietta Bacco Makes a Sandwich" proposal from hard drive*

*curses the Internet*

 

[seigezunt]

I prefer stories that stay away from what life is on Earth at this time. Invites to much political/economic speculation that can cause a shitstorm...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I was intrigued by the New Human movement and wanted to learn more. Just because I wouldn't fit in with them doesn't mean they're not interesting.

But more than that. That was just one movement on Earth among many. TELL ME ABOUT THE OTHERS.

I hope that some of those others actually wear clothes. Wasn't one of the tenets of New Humanism supposed to be going naked all the time? Trust me, you do NOT want to see me like that.

 

[bryce]

I personally *like* stories that detail life back in the Federation...world building stuff.

That's why I like Banks' Culture novels - even if the Culture isn't always the focus, the glimpses of such a radically different society are fascinating to me...

Life/people should *not* be just like today, but with replicators and starships - but that's how it's shown sometimes. And that's juat a failure of the imagination...

*sighs*

*deletes "Nanietta Bacco Makes a Sandwich" proposal from hard drive*

*curses the Internet*

Well, I had to admit, "Computer - sandwich, BLT, light mayo" was one of the shortest stories I'd ever read...

And who doesn't like bacon!?

 

[Arpy]

I prefer stories that stay away from what life is on Earth at this time. Invites to much political/economic speculation that can cause a shitstorm...

Unfortunately, I may agree with you. Everybody must have some concept no matter how vague of what life on Earth is like, and they're probably very different. With the writers here I don't know if I can give my own ideas for fear they'll automatically become poison that lit canon has to specifically stay away from.

The one thing I do want to say though about what I think life on Earth...and all the worlds of the Federation for Earth is not the Federation (...I am the state!)...but the one thing that life on Earth should be is good. No, I don't mean overly luxurious or pious or saccharine. But it should be a place where you could look at and say, "Yeah, I get how this is where the starship Enterprise comes from. More than that, my heart is warmed and spirit soars as much by these worlds as much as by their far flung starships."

Earth's not a dystopia of Elois that the "barbarians" on the Enterprise ran away from. It's not Pleasantville. It's not boring or soft or stagnant or dull. It's noble and strong and you'll find the same level of thought and emotion, of courage and valor, of spirit and vitality in the lives of its civilians as you do in its soldiers.

 

[Christopher]

And who doesn't like bacon!?

I can't stand it.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Now I know you're an alien.

Wait. Even aliens like bacon!

 

[Myasishchev]

Earth's not a dystopia of Elois that the "barbarians" on the Enterprise ran away from. It's not Pleasantville. It's not boring or soft or stagnant or dull. It's noble and strong and you'll find the same level of thought and emotion, of courage and valor, of spirit and vitality in the lives of its civilians as you do in its soldiers.

I wouldn't mind seeing an Eloi-like state for substantial fraction of the population (although it would kind of bug me if Starfleet Morlocks ate them). Federation people wouldn't be nearly as stupid, I suspect, but I don't doubt that there'd be hints of Idiocracy if the human species was permitted that option.

And there's nothing really wrong with that. It seems to me that Federation society has decided that their virtually entirely automated economy exists to satisfy people according to their needs, regardless of what it extracts from their capabilities.

I certainly don't have a problem with a future where I could goof off at whim (of course, this may not be true--in the absence of currency, if the Fed law still entertains the concept of contracts at all, specific performance [being forced to do whatever you promised to do] is the only remedy they've got left, which American law disfavors because it's a little too much like servitude).

 

[Penta]

Never mind contracts. A society without money is one where civil law becomes worthless.

To take an extreme:

Mary is walking along the streets with her kids. Mary gets hit by Paul's vehicle as Paul is in a crosswalk.

4 days later, Mary dies. The police determine it to be an accident, so no criminal charges are filed.

Joe, Mary's husband, would (among other causes of action) have the right to sue for wrongful death. Whether or not you believe society is too litigous, the fact is he has a right to sue.

But in order to file suit, you have to have a remedy the court can impose. It's not a criminal case (it's a historical artifact that the idea of a private person bringing a criminal case even needs to be mentioned - only the government, IRL and certainly in any "future" criminal justice system, would be able to bring criminal charges, for a whole host of good reasons), so Paul isn't at risk of imprisonment or anything similar.

In civil cases in real life, you have broad classes of remedy you can seek for any civil wrong done: Monetary damages, specific performance (only, really, in construction/real estate cases; as Myasischev mentions, any other time it looks a little too much like servitude), or injunction [a court orders you not to do something].

Wrongful death is a great cause of action to use for an example because it slams you right up against the heart of the matter.

Of the three categories of remedy, let's look at each one in the context of a wrongful death case:

Specific performance: What the heck is the court going to order you to do? Not at issue.

Injunction: Killing someone is a cause of action anyway. You're generally not supposed to kill people, anyway, and the death has happened, so how is this a remedy? How does it "make the claimant whole"?

Monetary damages: Wait, scratch that. You can't sue for monetary damages in the Federation/on Earth, there's no money to sue for.

In law, every right must have a remedy. Take away monetary damages, you take away a huge reason for people to, say, exercise care when operating a vehicle. More importantly, you make it impossible for someone against whom a wrong has been done to be made whole.

How the hell is there justice in the Federation, then?

 

[Myasishchev]

^I'd been thinking about tort law in the Federation, too, and they probably don't have or need many of the causes of action we have.

Take your wrongful death hypothetical, Federation society doesn't see Joe and Mary as economic partners, and the Federation itself appears to pay for most everything. Joe and Mary didn't pay for the hospitalization. Joe and Mary didn't pay for the funeral. Indeed, if it's a moniless society, on what basis does Joe calculate the bulk of his damages if Mary has never made a dime in her life?

Hell, the Federation probably paid to have the dent in Paul's hovercar fixed.

Now Joe has loss of companionship and similar damages, but it's not altogether clear the Federation cares. I'm not sure it was always the case at common law that such damages could be pleaded at all. It may not be the case in the future that essentially psychic damage need be compensated.

With that in mind, torts of intent and negligence simply aren't paid for by the defendant, except to the extent that they are criminal, in which he goes to a rehabilitation colony where therapists talk at Paul until he promises not to run anyone else down with his hovercar. Instead, they are paid for by the state.

This is, roughly speaking, just, since Joe is made as whole as possible, just not by Paul.

The question is, "Is it practicable?" That is, would the lack of personal ramifications for his actions make Paul and his ilk more careless in their actions?

This may well be so. This applies to a lack of punitive damages in products liability as well. We've seen a world where two hundred years pass and, despite probably thousands of lawsuits, no one has successfully forced starship manufacturers to go to even the minimal expense of putting seatbelts on their products. The future of products liability is grim--lawn darts sail in free, vicious arc through the air, Hover Corvairs flip and explode at any speed, and consoles kill.

 

[Penta]

-ROFLOL.

Okay, Myasishchev, taht was perhaps the funniest response (in your last lines) I've seen on the topic for a while.

No doubt food is adulterated horribly in this future, too.