LIBYAN REBELS those guys and gals are all right

[T'Girl]

To our shame, the United States has not declared war since World War II.

Depends on how you look at it, the Congressional joint resolution that authorized military action against Japan in 1941 did use the phrase "declaring that a state of war exists" and subsequent Congressional joint resolution to authorized military action haven't, but the constitution doesn't actually require specific language.

Asia Resolution Public Law 88-408 (Vietnam war).

Joint Resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 Public Law 102-1 (first gulf war).

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 Public Law 107-243 (Iraq war)

None of these used "declare" or "declaring," but they all were Congressional authorizations for military action. In other words "war."

It's true that (unlike his immediate Presidential predecessor) President Obama made no effort to obtain Congressional approval for his intended military actions.

War Powers Resolution.

"The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."

Basically applies only if the president is responding to an attack or has determined that the nation is under imminent threat. Just how does that include Libya?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Sure. I have no idea what TNZ is.

The Neutral Zone. You have to opt in to post in that forum. The opt in lurks somewhere in your User CP options

 

[Rulius]

We have boots on the ground.. somebody is forward observing.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Doesn't have to be us. Could be the British. Or the French.

 

[T'Girl]

its mostly the navy that is handling the situation

The fighter/bomber that crashed a few days ago was a F-15E eagle, the only branch of the US military that operates those is the Air Force.

Really sure Bush got congressional Approval before sending troops?

Of course he did, I sighted the resolution a couple of posts back, the resolution received 374 yes votes total and 156 no votes, it passed.

He's not Bush

Unfortunately no, Obama's not even close. the decisive Bush would have obtained Congressional approval, assembled a much larger international coalition and likely have gone in to support the rebels two or three weeks sooner.

Obama shouldn't have acted so fast without at least explaining in detail what his plan was.

Obama hardly act fast, he waited for weeks while Muammar al-Gaddafi's military forces savaged the rebels. And the President still hasn't really explained his plan.

Yes, the UN has their own planes

No the UN doesn't, not combat planes (just civilian transports). The UN charter does make a provision for a actual UN military force, but the member nations have consistently denied it's formation. Peacekeeping troop belong to the individual nations.

How are the pilots any less troops

The Army has soldiers, Air Force has airman, Marines have marines, and Navy has sailors ... all are considered "troops."

[forward observing] Doesn't have to be us. Could be the British. Or the French.

Possible, but unlikely. More likely US Army special forces or Navy SEALS.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

From what I've seen on TV, the Libyan rebels appear to be a poorly armed, unruly rabble that doesn't seem to have a clue about how to conduct an effective resistance to Gaddafi's forces, never mind capturing and actually holding on to territory. If it hadn't been for the coalition's air strikes, they'd all mostly be dead by now. For a start, they could conserve their ammunition by not constantly firing their guns into the air whenever the mood takes them.

 

[KJbushway]

Yes, pilots can kill someone. You have a point, Obama shouldn't have acted so fast without atleast explaining in detail what his plan was.

I agree.

The only problem is that if he had waited, more civilians would have been killed.

You can say that about many many areas in Africa, the middle east..

Yes, the UN has their own planes, but since we get our noses into everything it would make us look bad.

Make us look bad not to keep getting our noses into everything?

I couldn't start another thread concerning religious views, people may think I go out of my way to bash religious poeple, when for the most point I don't mind them, I have more friends who are than who aren't.

Oh well if it interests you you can always start in in TNZ.

You do know that Bush is famous for sending in troops first, before even considering congress.
Fortunatley that bomber pilot landed in a friendly zone.
Bush wouldn't even know how to do what you said, he isn't known for being our smartest president. Obama, is ten times the president that Bush could ever wish to be.
The Rebels weren't savaged so much, while they did have to retreat they have gained an amazing amount of ground.

 

[T'Girl]

You do know that Bush is famous for sending in troops first, before even considering congress.

Congressional authorizations for military action in Afghanistan was Senate Joint Resolution 23 / House Joint Resolution 64, Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists, Public Law 107-40, voted in by the US Congress on September 14, 2001, with 518 yes votes, 1 no vote and 12 not voting. The War in Afghanistan, Operation Enduring Freedom, began on October 7, 2001, a three week separation.

Congressional authorizations for military action in Iraq was on October 16, 2002, Operation Iraqi Freedom began on March 20, 2003. KJ Bushway, there was a separation of five months between Congressionasl approval and Bush "sending in the troops."

Fortunatley that bomber pilot landed in a friendly zone.

The Pilot and the weapons officer ejected, they didn't "land." The plane subsequently pancaked in, owing to it's construction, the plane remain (mostly) in one piece.

Bush wouldn't even know how to do what you said, he isn't known for being our smartest president. Obama, is ten times the president that Bush could ever wish to be.

Bush knew how to do what I said, because he actually did it twice. Both Bush and Obama attended Harvard law school, on the standardized IQ scale, Bush's IQ (125) was eleven point higher than Obama's (at 116).

Bush's SAT score was 1206, Obama refuses to release his SAT, despite multiple requests.

The Rebels weren't savaged so much, while they did have to retreat they have gained an amazing amount of ground.

This passed Saturday, the city of Ajdabiya fell to the rebels only after American warplanes conducted multiple air strikes on al-Gaddafi's troop concentrations, artillery positions and tanks defending the town.

Brega and Ras Lanuf also fell to the rebels over this past weekend, but only subsequent to American military action first. There have been similar cases of the majority of battle being fought by the French and the British forces with the rebels "showing up" later to fire their guns in the air and claim victory.

The coalition is fighting the war for the rebels.

 

[KJbushway]

Bush sent in troops to Iraq before congressional approval based on the Idea that the congressional approval for his father's desert storm still applied. A president can send in troops who fight for 90 days without congressional approval.
SATs don't represent intelligence. Bush and Obama may have went to the school. Two differences. Bush was a C' straight student who did cocaine, Obama just went to school.(and shouldn't have to show his scores, they are personal to some people)
Iq can be lied about, Obama, shows examples of his intelligence through his speech and actions. No-one can say the same about Bush, who compared to Obama, can't win when it comes to speeches. I know you like Bush, but he wasn't the best president, and he can't hold Obama's shoes. Now I don't necessarily like Obama as much as it may seem. I believe that he let down to easily on some issues. However, he is a much better president that Bush could ever be. Bush will never be on the list of the best president, Obama has a chance to be.

The rebels are techs, lawyers, teachers, politicans. The people have no choice but to form a militia. Which by the way haven't done that bad being under pressure, under-manned and under skilled. they need us, becuase without them, their president can keep killing Woman, children, and innocent people who just want a chance to survive.
One real reason we're involved is oil, yes. Had Bush been in office he would have done the same, but since Obama did this, Republicans automatically go against it.

 

[T'Girl]

Bush sent in troops to Iraq before congressional approval based on the Idea that the congressional approval for his father's desert storm still applied.

Okay fine, I've given the exact dates of the Congressional approvals, now you give the exact date that Bush sent in these "troops" you've mentioned. We're all aware of the military personnel flying in the then existing northern and southern no-fly zones, so when did Bush send the troops in?

Obama, shows examples of his intelligence through his speech and actions. No-one can say the same about Bush, who compared to Obama, can't win when it comes to speeches.

Oh I don't think anyone is going to say that Bush was an effective speaker, that said in comparison to brilliant speech makers like Presidents Reagan and Clinton, Obama is a stumbling fool behind the microphone. At least Bush could speak extemporaneously. Lets be honest.

A president can send in troops who fight for 90 days without congressional approval.

A reference to the War Powers Resolution of 1973, first no US President has even acknowledge the validity of that resolution, second it only applies under certain circumstances, third it isn't 90 days to fight, it's 60 day to fight with 30 days to withdraw.

Two differences. Bush was a C' straight student who did cocaine, Obama just went to school.

Obama also did cocaine, by his own words in his book Dreams from My Father (which I read).

We know about Bush's grades because his transcripts were released, Obama refuses to release his transcripts. Obama graduated from Columbia University with a degree in Political Science without honors, so had a GPA somewhere above a barely passing grade and below a 3.3. He graduated Harvard in the top ten percent, but again no exact grades.

I know you like Bush

Less than you might think, but then I'm not an Republican.

 

[KJbushway]

Well the U.S is no longer sending our aircaft over to Libya. So it sounds like its up to our foriegn friends to help the rebels.