LGBTQIA characters and Bechdel test

[Mountie1988]

Now that the unimportant questions like hero-shipdesign are resolved, we can concentrate on the core topics regarding Star Trek: Discovery! How many LGBTQIA characters will there be? Just one statist to pacify the Internet community, or are they going to put the queerest crew the galaxy has ever seen in charge of the ship? May the Bechdel test even be passed every single episode? What do you think?

 

[Doom Shepherd]

I think my troll alarm just redlined.

 

[Spider]

Oh for gods sakes. Who cares about this crap as long as the stories are good?

 

[Gov Kodos]

Now that the unimportant questions like hero-shipdesign are resolved, we can concentrate on the core topics regarding Star Trek: Discovery! How many LGBTQIA characters will there be? Just one statist to pacify the Internet community, or are they going to put the queerest crew the galaxy has ever seen in charge of the ship? May the Bechdel test even be passed every single episode? Who's going to be the villains? Homophobic Klingons? Conservative, regressive, straight, backward-thinking Iowans? What do you think?

?

 

[Mountie1988]

Oh for gods sakes. Who cares about this crap as long as the stories are good?

Like... everyone it seems
http://trekmovie.com/2016/07/24/exc...overy-producers-on-ships-design-shows-themes/

 

[Mountie1988]

I think my troll alarm just redlined.

Yeah, right. A bit over the top. Let me rephrase...

 

[Lord Garth]

I'll answer this seriously. I'm bi (I came out of the closet in January). I think there'll be a an LGBT character but probably not T. I don't like how '90s Trek dodged LGBT issues or always used qualifiers. How they handled Sulu in Star Trek Beyond is the way to do it. Just show it as just another thing. As it should be by whatever time Discovery takes place.

I'm going to take Bryan Fuller at his word that there's going to be a better gender balance in this series. Or even a balance at all. The one that came closest was Voyager where the main cast was one-third female. It might be half-and-half this time. I don't think every episode will pass the Bechdel Test but some will.

As for "liberal" and "conservative": there are conflicting ideas about humanity. There's the idea that technology will change but human nature will remain the same. To quote Khan in "Space Seed": "How little man himself has changed." Or the idea that humanity has evolved. To quote Picard in any first season TNG episode but even as late as First Contact. "Humanity hasn't changed" will be conservative. "Humanity has evolved" will be liberal. I don't know if these types of arguments will be shown in Discovery but that's as good a starting point as any for figuring out the political compass in Star Trek.

The outside/third view can be summed up best by Azetbur in Star Trek VI "In-alien? If you could only hear yourselves. "Human rights" The very name is racist." Then there's what Eddington said in "For the Cause" about the Federation: "In some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans to assimilate you. You're more insidious. You assimilate people without them even knowing it."

 

[Spider]

Like... everyone it seems
http://trekmovie.com/2016/07/24/exc...overy-producers-on-ships-design-shows-themes/

As a subset of society, they are barely 5% and command this much attention? Some people have their social equality monitors all out of whack.

And no, I don't have anything against gays. I am saying for such a small subset of society, we are TOTALLY over reacting here.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

As a subset of society, they are barely 5% and command this much attention? Some people have their social equality monitors all out of whack.

And no, I don't have anything against gays. I am saying for such a small subset of society, we are TOTALLY over reacting here.

If you don't have anything against gays, what's your problem with media representation of them?

 

[Spider]

If you don't have anything against gays, what's your problem with media representation of them?

Nothing. I just don't understand the uproar over the subject.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Nothing. I just don't understand the uproar over the subject.

If you have never lacked for media representation of people like yourself, then that's understandable.

There are many people who have little or no such (positive) representation in pop culture, and some of them are advocating for that representation to be increased. Calling it an "uproar" is grossly overstating the case. In this case, it wasn't even LGBTQ people demanding representation, just production staff confirming that it was a priority:

Kadin confirmed to Trekmovie.com that Discovery would feature female, minority, and LGBTQ characters as she felt modern television did not accurately represent those groups in television shows featuring predominantly-caucasian casts. On the subject of LGBTQ characters specifically, Kadin commented that “is something that’s very important to Bryan [Fuller], and very important to all of us to portray.”

I don't really see an issue there.

 

[Mountie1988]

I'll answer this seriously. ...."

Thanks for the serious answer. There's this Trill-episode in TNG when at the end Crusher does not want to continue her relationship because the new host is female. I think that was a kind of strange and unlikely twist in a show that featured the first interracial kiss, black actor in a drama series etc. They also never had a gay character in all those 725+ episodes which seemed kind of a statement considering they were so inclusive. I was finally relieved to see Sulu having a male lover although I was disappointed they were doing it so subtle, only in a couple of short scenes, not even kissing.
Anyhow, it's time they have to have a gay (or lesbian, transgender...) character in my opinion, also a disabled character would be nice, and a muslim woman as captain - why not.

 

[David Strickhouser]

If you have never lacked for media representation of people like yourself, then that's understandable.

Why does one need media representation to define one's self? Or any representation at all?
Be yourself; good, bad or indifferent.
The mirror one faces is the only representation needed.
Activism and politics get thrown into the mix, and all Hades breaks loose.
Be yourself, but there's no need to broadcast yourself.

 

[Spider]

If you have never lacked for media representation of people like yourself, then that's understandable.

I've had enough misrepresentation of my group (us old baby boomers) to not want any more representation by media. But hey, I'm not arguing the national issue of gay rights here, of which I'm all for (I'm a Libertarian), I'm simply wondering why it such an important issue to everyone for such a small minority. I would think the inclusion of the different human and alien races to be more an important "crew target", of which Star Trek is already doing a fairly good job at. Not perfect by any means though.

 

[Karp666]

They also never had a gay character in all those 725+ episodes which seemed kind of a statement considering they were so inclusive.

But we had THIS:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DzlBenz/media/1244806487080.gif.html
A kiss where four specimen, at least six persons and two species took part

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Why does one need media representation to define one's self? Or any representation at all?
Be yourself; good, bad or indifferent.
The mirror one faces is the only representation needed.
Activism and politics get thrown into the mix, and all Hades breaks loose.
Be yourself, but there's no need to broadcast yourself.

Let's take all the straight white men out of pop culture, then. Make room for everybody else.

I've had enough misrepresentation of my group (us old baby boomers) to not want any more representation by media. But hey, I'm not arguing the national issue of gay rights here, of which I'm all for (I'm a Libertarian), I'm simply wondering why it such an important issue to everyone for such a small minority. I would think the inclusion of the different human and alien races to be more an important "crew target", of which Star Trek is already doing a fairly good job at. Not perfect by any means though.

Given that "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" is one of those things Trek fans like to hang onto as a central tenet, what's wrong with showing the incredible diversity among human beings, too?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

May the Bechdel test even be passed every single episode?

It's not necessary for every single episode in a new series to pass the Bechdel test. It would be progressive if most of them did, though, and that's pretty much expected. I would certainly be critical if the majority failed to pass that simple test, and I'm certainly looking for greater depth of character than merely checking off some boxes. (Indeed, my read on the Bechdel test has always been that it has a degree of sarcasm involved in its observation that most films can't even pass such a ridiculously low bar; the goal of inclusiveness is not to see the test, as written, simply passed, but exceeded!) However, say an episode focuses on two members of the crew trapped on a planet, a man and woman. If that's your focus for that episode, then there might not be a reasonable opportunity to check every box on the test for that episode in particular.

 

[Mountie1988]

The one that came closest was Voyager where the main cast was one-third female. It might be half-and-half this time. "

Yes, Voyager is best when it comes to female representation. It went downhill from there with Enterprise (although T'Pol as first officer puts this series on par with DS9) and the reimagining of TOS. I think it could backfire to have more women than male characters, because let's not forget Star Trek is primarily watched by men who tend to prefer men as main characters. And Iowan models, female Borg drones...

 

[Spider]

Given that "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" is one of those things Trek fans like to hang onto as a central tenet, what's wrong with showing the incredible diversity among human beings, too?

I knew I should have not gotten into this. Look, I don't give a shit if there are gay characters or not, or if their is a black, female, or alien as the captain and we have a troop of Nazi Klingon Storm troopers on hand to kick ass. As I said before, I want good stories. Period. I don't care about the trappings of the show or who's in it. The last time I saw good Star Trek was DS9 and the last season of Enterprise and I'm ready for good Star Trek.

I do NOT want Star Trek that is mindlessly trying to BE Star Trek every single episode. I want a Star Trek that simply tells good stores in the Star Trek universe.

 

[Mountie1988]

But we had THIS:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DzlBenz/media/1244806487080.gif.html
A kiss where four specimen, at least six persons and two species took part

True, but that was a totally different approach...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian_kiss_episode