Let's Talk About Insurrection:

[Praxius]

Just went through this section of the forums and saw no standalone thread regarding this movie, so I'm going to open up this can of Gagh....

Now, the reason why I felt the need to start this thread was in relation to something I read in one of the ST:V threads.

Over the years I have seen many trash ST:V as being one of the worst TOS movies and going hand in hand with TMP..... Now while it was never my favorite movies out of all of them, I still liked it and wasn't in the bottom three movies in my personal list.

But what I saw in the ST:V thread was a very good comment that made sense to me. ST:V seemed to touch base better with the episodes of TOS and focused a lot on the characters and their relationships with one another more than the rest.

That made me think about Insurrection.

When I first saw it and when I watched it each time over the years, I knew it wasn't my favorite TNG movie, in fact it was always my least favorite. Despite this I still liked it and enjoyed it.... However it felt like less of a movie and more like it could have just been a two-part episode in the series.

But with the comments I read about ST:V, I started to think about it more and realized that that's not really a bad thing at all.

I felt that Insurrection also focused a lot on the characters and their relationships with one another.

• Riker and Troi progressing their relationship (finally)
• Riker taking his shots at Worf like the friends they always were
• Troi and Crusher doing their "Woman Talk" with one another
• Data being puzzled by why people treat him differently
• Picard sticking to his guns with the Prime Directive and doing the "Right Thing" like he always did

Sure there were some odd things done in the movie that are questionable (how many excuses can you come up with for Worf showing up on the Enterprise?)

..... But overall, it's a good movie that takes you back to many of the things that existed in the series in regards to the characters. To me, it focused more on continued character development and their relationships than on the main enemy or challenge facing the crew like in First Contact / Nemesis.

Sure the above was still there, but the focus seemed to be more towards how each Character did their thing regarding the above.

I'm sure many people will comment on this flaw or that inaccuracy or how one may not agree with the actions some of the characters took in the movie... But every single Star Trek movie has holes, flaws and inconsistencies, thus they go hand in hand and I guess at this point, they should be expected.

But what are your opinions?

Since this is the only Insurrection thread I see in here, all opinions are open, even the nit picky flaw ones, so let er rip.

But I'm more personally interested in the things people "Liked" about the movie..... Meh, either way, I'll be interested in reading it all.

 

[Franklin]

INS was a nice TV episode and a terrible feature film.

The prime directive doesn't even apply since the Ba'ku were a warp drive culture and aware of other worlds and peoples. They just chose to close themselves off to all of it.

Thematically, I always thought the Ba'ku represented the ideals of many baby boomers back in the 1960s when they were young. Anti-materialistic. Passive. Communal. Live for today. A somewhat simple and naïve world view (who do you think protects you and allows you to live this way?). The Son'a represented those baby boomers as they aged, lost their idealism, and got caught up in yuppy values and the pursuit of a middle class or upper-middle class lifestyle. At the same time, they strived to maintain their youth. What they both seemed to have in common was narcissism.

 

[Pineapples101]

I'm a fan of the film.
I will admit that at the time of release it felt like a bit of a letdown after FC - it's really grown on me over the years.

There is a lot to like in this film...
• Great score
• Some great visual effects (the shuttle chase specifically)
• The Geordi sunset scene may be my favourite TNG scene of all time
• The Picard / Anji romance works
• F. Murray Abraham and Gregg Henry are superb. I especially like how Gregg Henry's character Gallatin sees the error of his ways.
• I think the photography is superb - and I have yet to see any home video release come close to what I saw projected in '98.

Does anyone else remember how this film looked in the cinema? Or was I imagining it looking a hell of a lot better?

The hay bales in the opening sequence for example - I remember these being literally golden in the cinema... and yet any home video release I've seen after, has never looked as vivid, the hay always appears dull and lifeless. No gold, just a yellowy green.

However...
• The couch on the Son'a bridge should never have happened. I appreciate the production designer trying to do something different from the same old bridge layout, but this might be a bit too far.
• There is no place for joysticks in Star Trek!
• I never liked any of the comedic moments. The Data / baby’s bottom gag was enough, the rest is over the top. Boobs conversation, Worfs puberty etc
• The whole thing should have tied in with the dominion more, I think they really missed an opportunity there.
• Yet more 'Picard goes it alone against the bad guy in a vest' shenanigans
• The Enterprise / briar patch effects look pretty bad – did they spend all the FX budget on the shuttle sequence?

That said, I really enjoy this film and find that I go to it more and more as I have gotten older.
It's got a lot of heart, it's beautifully shot and scored and it has some genuinely moving moments for the Next Gen crew.
And it's a billion times better than Nemesis.

 

[Melakon]

There is a lot to like in this film...
• Great score
• Some great visual effects (the shuttle chase specifically)
• The Geordi sunset scene may be my favourite TNG scene of all time
• The Picard / Anji romance works
• F. Murray Abraham and Gregg Henry are superb. I especially like how Gregg Henry's character Gallatin sees the error of his ways.
• I think the photography is superb - and I have yet to see any home video release come close to what I saw projected in '98.

• Anthony Zerbe, one the great film and TV bad guys, finally does a Star Trek.

 

[BillJ]

Down this path lies only madness...

 

[Khan 2.0]

recently ive come to think it was TNGs attempt to do their Search for Spock (the insurrection part, becoming renegades) after their Wrath of Khan (FC being a sequel to a tv episode, revenge, Moby Dick etc)

 

[Jedi_Master]

It was terribly uneven, with lots of dreck and filler, but it had some great moments, most of them comedic.

 

[T'Girl]

Thematically, I always thought ...

Interesting idea, it fits what we saw on screen.

 

[Smellmet]

There's nothing about the movie I actually hate, nor is there anything about it that I love either, that's the problem with this movie - it is just so utterly mediocre that it is actually less than the sum of it's parts.

Having just rewatched TMP DE, which I appreciate has it's detractors on here, at least that came from a time when Trek was bold and ambitious in terms of size and scope - Insurrection was so by the numbers it's depressing.

Second bottom above TFF for me I'm afraid.

 

[Franklin]

Thematically, I always thought ...

Interesting idea, it fits what we saw on screen.

It struck me as so especially when it turned out the Ba'ku and Son'a turned out to be the same people.

Given many in Trek's demographic were Baby Boomers in or entering their prime earning years in the 1990s, I really think there could've been a lot more meat to that part of the story. It was really about maintaining core values and still living and getting along in the real world. Unfortunately, all of that was caught up in a basically crappy story that mostly squandered that possibility. Was the Haight-Ashbury attitude of live for today, and live for others ever realistic? Does that attitude have to die when a person moves on in life to have a family and a career, and moves to a suburban gated community with a four bedroom house, three car garage, a swimming pool, and a retirement account?

 

[Lance]

Just went through this section of the forums and saw no standalone thread regarding this movie.

Oh believe me, there have been plenty of them over the years (this place only shows the last three pages worth of threads unless specifically requested to look further back).

I think Insurrection has got some great character moments (so does Nemesis, to be fair), but they've all been strung onto a story which is lame, focusing on a conflict where the "good guys" are actually less sympathetic than the bad guys. Even with all his moral principals, it's hard to understand why Picard would risk his commission for this particular Planet Of Hats. I can't help but feel that it's all simply some kind of freaky spell that the Baku have put him and the rest of the crew under, and that he probably woke up the next morning with a hangover, clutched at his bald head (or facepalmed, even) and screamed "Nooooooo! What have I DONE?!?".

 

[HIjol]

Let me just say that as I was forming my words, I was reading Pinneaples 101 response.

ExACTly what he said. And, yes, it never looked better that up on the big screen.

Anyone know why?

 

[Trek Survivor]

Just went through this section of the forums and saw no standalone thread regarding this movie....

.

Really? I started a thread called "Learning to Love Insurrection" a while back which went on for ages!

 

[Timo]

Even with all his moral principals, it's hard to understand why Picard would risk his commission for this particular Planet Of Hats.

Generally, he hasn't been all that worried about his career. He turns down a promotion early on, topples ill-behaving Admirals left and right, and often enough contemplates sacrificing his life to protect the innocent (be they his crew or a bunch of people he just met). This didn't strike me as a novel aspect to the character. Although I could speculate on his advancing years making him even more likely to contemplate self-sacrifice - and his spell of newly found youth then driving him to rash action on the subject.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

..... But overall, it's a good movie that takes you back to many of the things that existed in the series in regards to the characters.

It's got a lot of heart, it's beautifully shot and scored and it has some genuinely moving moments for the Next Gen crew.
And it's a billion times better than Nemesis.

I share these sentiments and applaud Jonathan Frakes for what he attempted to accomplish, here. I'll still say it: he's the best director the franchise ever had, until J.J. Abrams. Frakes contributions to STAR TREK can't be overstated. On a more personal note, Riker and Deanna was handled just perfectly, I feel. I really love seeing them wanting to get together again, although, had I been in charge, I probably wouldn't have given the Imzadi thing much thought. And besides, how could it even be brought up, much less shoe-horned into the kind of story this movie's about?

When Deanna answers this by telling Wil, "... on this ship? Anything can happen," I get that big ol' Tom Sawyer grin on my face, every time. Because it's true of the ENTERPRISE and because now, that whole IMZADI thing actually says something, it actually means something. These two are going to fall in love again, because they can. And having Worf there, showing support of it says a lot about the kind of friendship they have. This kind of stuff is what makes TNG so damn satisfying, for me and INSURRECTION's of it. I'm sorry that the script for this movie wasn't given more time and attention, it would've become bigger than WRATH of KHAN, I can see it! I would've liked to see improvements, sure, but I'm still glad it was made - and I enjoy the living hell out of this movie.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I remember seeing a trailer for this film on television, and I thought to myself, "Boy, Trek is reaaaally trying now."

They had Data saying 'Let's lock...and load' as if it was going to be a rousing, tightly written, action-packed extravaganza. However, I remember renting this and falling asleep half-way through and getting up to see F. Murray Abraham's Rufio* yelling for some reason.

What I did actually like about the film:
*The Jadzia Dax look-a-like. (What was her name? Kell Perim?)
*Donna Murphy's character.
*Anthony Zerbe's character who really wasn't a 'villain' per se, but had the unfortunate circumstance of dealing with the wrong people, or person.



















*Yes, yes....I know. Ru'afo....but I don't like the film (or 'Hook') so 'Rufio' it is. There I combine two of my dislikes.

 

[mos6507]

The characterizations are very warm and relaxed together in a way that the cast rarely got to enjoy during TNG's run, probably the best ever, including First Contact. But I agree that this rests within the frame of a story that didn't feel like it needed to be told, at least not on the big-screen. It was much ado about nothing. So those character moments are kind of wasted in the end by a dull story.

 

[Lance]

They had Data saying 'Let's lock...and load' as if it was going to be a rousing, tightly written, action-packed extravaganza. However, I remember renting this and falling asleep half-way through and getting up to see F. Murray Abraham's Rufio* yelling for some reason.

Man I hated that line. There's a part of me which is like, it was so clearly a 'trailer bait' line. Like Carol taking off her clothes in STID, it's just one of those things where you know it's only in the script to give them something to put in the trailers.

 

[Praxius]

I did laugh at the "Smooth as an Android's Butt" and "You Klingons don't do anything Small do you?"

 

[Pineapples101]

In my opinion, they really should have gone with a 'through line' following the events of First Contact.
The way TWOK leads to TSFS and that leads to TVH. (I know that wasn't the original intention)
Insurrection could have dealt with the follow on from FC some how...
Data going rogue as a result of Borg tampering, Picard losing his mind? Or why not the Enterprise - when leaving Cochrans Earth - ends up somewhere unexpected - a different time, quadrant of the galaxy etc

Just something to tie the two films together.

I have never understood why the films always have to be standalone adventures? I assume the studio doesn't want to alienate the none Star Trek fans?

Also, I always wanted to see more of Star Fleet. Different ships, different captains, perhaps other ships helping the Enterprise, Star Fleet headquarters, ship yards, why has the hollowed out metorite space station concept never been used?
Insurrection and Nemesis seem very much NCC-1701E centric.
There’s a big, huge universe there to be explored and yet the Trek films keep going back to the TWOK equation.

They need to think bigger. (See The Motion Picture)

I enjoy Insurrection, but it is a missed opportunity.

I recommend people track down Michael Pillers unpublished book 'Fade in: The writing of Star Trek Insurrection'. To see how studio interference, star ego and generally too many cooks ruined what started out as an interesting project.