Let's See Your Originality For Trek XII
- Thread starter All Seeing Eye
- Start date
Clothing had better be ripped off
I would have omitted the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan since those events were only stupid and ridiculous and has created a time paradox.
If I had been in charge, I would have re-watched all TOS episodes and all the TOS movies, read the Star trek Chronicle, hired Okuda as supervisor and made a a movie from there. I would have kept a lot of things from the movie, except those who screw up established Trek history.
If I had been in charge, I would have re-watched all TOS episodes and all the TOS movies, read the Star trek Chronicle, hired Okuda as supervisor and made a a movie from there. I would have kept a lot of things from the movie, except those who screw up established Trek history.
They could have done all of this with a completely new Trek saga featuring a new cast set in the post 24th century future. Heck, all of this could have been a result of the Dominion War. Instead, we're stuck with a recycled cast of characters with an altered storyline. How original. Not.
Really, there aren't too many stories that couldn't have been done in the 24th century. When you get down to it, the made up future is the made up future regardless of what year you give it. The question is what story lines you make and how you have the characters respond to the situations you put them in
Hmmm, interesting question
One thing I'm not interested in is the 'nutso powered up Big Bad seeking revenge' or variants thereof: Nero, Shinzon, the Son'a, the Borg Queen, Tolian Soran, Khan, and so on. It's been done.
If you have one Big Bad, make him/her charming and rational, but absolutely determined to bend the Galaxy to his will. To a certain extent these traits are true of early Stalin or Hitler, until they both went off the rails, absolute power corrupting absolutely. Show that person early in their rise, rather than late when the power's ruined them, show what made them so charming, charismatic and interesting.
The Big Bad could also be some kind of force of nature or similar. Example: a star's about to turn nova. The Ent is, as usual, the 'only ship in the area'. They have to persuade a pre-contact civilisation this is about to happen, other ships are on their way to take away as many people as possible... but not everyone can go. That gives scope for what made the Kelvin sequence good, the intimate moments among the epic scale events. Maybe they get enough ships there in time, maybe not. I suppose this what the Vulcan sequence could have been if they'd had time, and it can be shown to affect Spock, he doesn't want to lose another world on his watch all over again.
That's all right now, off the top of my head.
One thing I'm not interested in is the 'nutso powered up Big Bad seeking revenge' or variants thereof: Nero, Shinzon, the Son'a, the Borg Queen, Tolian Soran, Khan, and so on. It's been done.
If you have one Big Bad, make him/her charming and rational, but absolutely determined to bend the Galaxy to his will. To a certain extent these traits are true of early Stalin or Hitler, until they both went off the rails, absolute power corrupting absolutely. Show that person early in their rise, rather than late when the power's ruined them, show what made them so charming, charismatic and interesting.
The Big Bad could also be some kind of force of nature or similar. Example: a star's about to turn nova. The Ent is, as usual, the 'only ship in the area'. They have to persuade a pre-contact civilisation this is about to happen, other ships are on their way to take away as many people as possible... but not everyone can go. That gives scope for what made the Kelvin sequence good, the intimate moments among the epic scale events. Maybe they get enough ships there in time, maybe not. I suppose this what the Vulcan sequence could have been if they'd had time, and it can be shown to affect Spock, he doesn't want to lose another world on his watch all over again.
That's all right now, off the top of my head.
Here's my pitch. It was in another thread, but this one gets more hits:
Inspiration:
TOS “Balance of Terror”
TOS "Arena"
TOS “Errand of Mercy”
TOS “The Enterprise Incident”
TNG “The Battle”
TNG “The Defector”
TNG “Data’s Day”
TNG “The Chase”
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
The Hunt for Red October
Star Trek (2009)
TNG “A Final Unity” Video Game
The movie opens with the Enterprise as part of a Federation convoy (3-4 ships) taking Vulcans to their new colony. Suddenly, an ambush! A Romulan fleet squadron (one large ship and two smaller ones) attacks! A battle ensues. A Federation "aircraft carrier", USS Intrepid, much larger than Enterprise is dramatically destroyed. It was commanded by Admiral Pike, killed in front of Kirk’s very eyes. For Kirk, it is like losing his father a second time. The Romulans are victorious. The Enterprise and the surviving Federation ships are at their mercy. Only the impending arrival of Federation reinforcements stops the impending slaughter. The Romulans vessels kidnap some Vulcan elders (including Sarek), and warp away, all except for a small Romulan scoutship which was itself damaged in the attack.
Federation reinforcements arrive and quickly warp off in pursuit, all except for crippled Enterprise. This is the Hunt for Red October. The loss of USS Intrepid was traumatic for Starfleet, equal to the loss of HMS Hood to the Royal Navy. The Neutral Zone is the North Atlantic. Every Starfleet vessel is hunting for the cloaked Romulan vessel, the flagship/Red October/Bismarck of the enemy fleet. A transmission from Admiral Nogura provides some exposition. The Romulan Commander is a legend, he has the reputation of a Romulan Marco Ramius or Captain Picard. He is cold, calculating and competent, like the Romulans in TNG “The Defector” or TOS “Balance of Terror.” A consummate professional, he is driven by a sense of duty. Once upon a time, he singlehandedly tied down the Federation fleet in the Laurentian System.
While performing its own repairs, Enterprise dispatches an away team to the heavily damaged Romulan vessel. The ship is a wreak. McCoy gets to say, "He's dead, Jim." Onboard, the away team finds Saavik! She was one of the captured Vulcan prisoners. She has never met Spock. If she looks closer to the crew's age . . . well, we were never told what her age was in Wrath of Khan, and Vulcans have long lifespans. Immediately, there is sexual tension between her and Spock, centering around the fact that Saavik is a Vulcan female. To love a human is not logical, not when the survival of the Vulcan race is at stake. Drama follows between Spock and Uhura.
With Saavik's help and information from the Romulan ship, the crew discovers what they were after: a weapon of infinite power created by an ancient race of "Space Atlanteans." Their empire existed before Surak, and stretched over all of is now both Federation and Romulan space. Like the Greeks with incomplete knowledge of the Atlantis, the Vulcan elders captured by the Romulans have information vital to finding the secret location of the ancient Space Atlantean capital. While the rest of the fleet is on a wild goose chase, believing this Ramius is trying to escape across the Neutral Zone, the Enterprise becomes USS Dallas. Saavik reveals that he is actually headed for an uninhabited planet in Federation space that holds another clue about the Atlanteans.
The Enterprise arrives at its destination, but the Romulans are waiting. Kirk is beaten again! Turns out that Saavik is (in this alternate timeline) a half Vulcan/half Romulan double agent, and has led them into a trap! Her “rescue” from the derelict Romulan ship was staged so that she could steal some information from the Enterprise computers about the location of the ancient weapon. The second encounter was staged to provide her a means of escape. She kidnaps Spock when she is beamed aboard the Romulan vessel.
But Kirk and Spock already knew that Saavik was a double agent, and allowed her to escape. Uhura speaks all 3 dialects of Romulan. This isn't revealed to the audience until after the battle takes place, but there are clues littered earlier in the movie. The Enterprise was only playing dead. And even though the Romulan ship is cloaked, Spock is broadcasting a hidden signal that allows the Enterprise to track them.
Spock is now a hostage aboard the Romulan ship. The sexual chemistry between Saavik and Spock continues (think TOS "The Enterprise Incident"). In this alternate timeline, Saavik is like Juliet when she had Jack locked in a shark tank at the beginning of season 3 of LOST. Nice one minute, will beat the crap out of you the next.
The Romulans go the capital of Space Atlantis, a remote planet in the heart of the Neutral Zone. Spock, Sarek, Saavik and the Romulan Commander and some Romulan redshirts go down to the planet in a shuttle. It’s one of those planets where sensors and transporters don’t work.
The Enterprise arrives while they are on the surface. This time the Enterprise does the ambushing. Kirk invents the Picard maneuver, and scores a decisive victory. The battle is all the more dramatic because Kirk (and the audience) does not know that Spock is on the planet. When Kirk fires on the Romulan vessel, we think he killed Spock. Kirk takes an away team down to the planet via shuttle. This victory will be a hollow one if the Romulans get their hands on the Atlantean super weapon.
They land in a ruined alien city. It's a spectacular sight, revealed as they descend through the clouds of the atmosphere. Kirk and company catch up with the Romulans. With Spock's help, they overpower most of the Romulans, except for the Romulan Commander, who escapes. There’s some hand to hand combat, Kirk vs the Romulan Commander, Kirk is pretty angry about Pike’s death, but shows mercy in victory. Lucky for him, because once this concludes the planet unveils its secret . . .
There is no Space Atlantis super weapon. The Atlanteans never went extinct, they're still alive and here! They had simply moved on to “the next phase of their evolution” (Spock’s explanation in Star Trek I) and are omnipotent. They have no use for empire, and have retreated to this planet to explore the universe with their minds. They are far beyond this puny conflict between the Federation and the Romulans, but this alien incursion forces them to to intervene. Had Kirk killed the Romulan, these aliens would have annihilated the human race, but because Kirk showed mercy, they decide that there is hope for humanity after all. Instead, they will eliminate the Romulans. But Kirk saves the Romulan race by pleading for mercy (TOS "Arena"). The Atlanteans impose a truce like the Organians (at least within their system, TOS "Errand of Mercy") and send everyone on their way.
The movie ends on a positive note. A Romulan fleet is defeated by the Federation fleet off screen and the Romulans sue for peace. The Romulan Commander is replaced by a subordinate who earlier in the film, expressed skepticism about this entire endeavor. Kirk communicates with this man over the view screen. This new Romulan commander was both humbled by the Atlanteans and impressed by Kirk's mercy on the planet below. He thanks Kirk, smiles and says “one day" (TNG "The Chase").
Space, the Final Frontier . . . the Enterprise Warps away.
Inspiration:
TOS “Balance of Terror”
TOS "Arena"
TOS “Errand of Mercy”
TOS “The Enterprise Incident”
TNG “The Battle”
TNG “The Defector”
TNG “Data’s Day”
TNG “The Chase”
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
The Hunt for Red October
Star Trek (2009)
TNG “A Final Unity” Video Game
The movie opens with the Enterprise as part of a Federation convoy (3-4 ships) taking Vulcans to their new colony. Suddenly, an ambush! A Romulan fleet squadron (one large ship and two smaller ones) attacks! A battle ensues. A Federation "aircraft carrier", USS Intrepid, much larger than Enterprise is dramatically destroyed. It was commanded by Admiral Pike, killed in front of Kirk’s very eyes. For Kirk, it is like losing his father a second time. The Romulans are victorious. The Enterprise and the surviving Federation ships are at their mercy. Only the impending arrival of Federation reinforcements stops the impending slaughter. The Romulans vessels kidnap some Vulcan elders (including Sarek), and warp away, all except for a small Romulan scoutship which was itself damaged in the attack.
Federation reinforcements arrive and quickly warp off in pursuit, all except for crippled Enterprise. This is the Hunt for Red October. The loss of USS Intrepid was traumatic for Starfleet, equal to the loss of HMS Hood to the Royal Navy. The Neutral Zone is the North Atlantic. Every Starfleet vessel is hunting for the cloaked Romulan vessel, the flagship/Red October/Bismarck of the enemy fleet. A transmission from Admiral Nogura provides some exposition. The Romulan Commander is a legend, he has the reputation of a Romulan Marco Ramius or Captain Picard. He is cold, calculating and competent, like the Romulans in TNG “The Defector” or TOS “Balance of Terror.” A consummate professional, he is driven by a sense of duty. Once upon a time, he singlehandedly tied down the Federation fleet in the Laurentian System.
While performing its own repairs, Enterprise dispatches an away team to the heavily damaged Romulan vessel. The ship is a wreak. McCoy gets to say, "He's dead, Jim." Onboard, the away team finds Saavik! She was one of the captured Vulcan prisoners. She has never met Spock. If she looks closer to the crew's age . . . well, we were never told what her age was in Wrath of Khan, and Vulcans have long lifespans. Immediately, there is sexual tension between her and Spock, centering around the fact that Saavik is a Vulcan female. To love a human is not logical, not when the survival of the Vulcan race is at stake. Drama follows between Spock and Uhura.
With Saavik's help and information from the Romulan ship, the crew discovers what they were after: a weapon of infinite power created by an ancient race of "Space Atlanteans." Their empire existed before Surak, and stretched over all of is now both Federation and Romulan space. Like the Greeks with incomplete knowledge of the Atlantis, the Vulcan elders captured by the Romulans have information vital to finding the secret location of the ancient Space Atlantean capital. While the rest of the fleet is on a wild goose chase, believing this Ramius is trying to escape across the Neutral Zone, the Enterprise becomes USS Dallas. Saavik reveals that he is actually headed for an uninhabited planet in Federation space that holds another clue about the Atlanteans.
The Enterprise arrives at its destination, but the Romulans are waiting. Kirk is beaten again! Turns out that Saavik is (in this alternate timeline) a half Vulcan/half Romulan double agent, and has led them into a trap! Her “rescue” from the derelict Romulan ship was staged so that she could steal some information from the Enterprise computers about the location of the ancient weapon. The second encounter was staged to provide her a means of escape. She kidnaps Spock when she is beamed aboard the Romulan vessel.
But Kirk and Spock already knew that Saavik was a double agent, and allowed her to escape. Uhura speaks all 3 dialects of Romulan. This isn't revealed to the audience until after the battle takes place, but there are clues littered earlier in the movie. The Enterprise was only playing dead. And even though the Romulan ship is cloaked, Spock is broadcasting a hidden signal that allows the Enterprise to track them.
Spock is now a hostage aboard the Romulan ship. The sexual chemistry between Saavik and Spock continues (think TOS "The Enterprise Incident"). In this alternate timeline, Saavik is like Juliet when she had Jack locked in a shark tank at the beginning of season 3 of LOST. Nice one minute, will beat the crap out of you the next.
The Romulans go the capital of Space Atlantis, a remote planet in the heart of the Neutral Zone. Spock, Sarek, Saavik and the Romulan Commander and some Romulan redshirts go down to the planet in a shuttle. It’s one of those planets where sensors and transporters don’t work.
The Enterprise arrives while they are on the surface. This time the Enterprise does the ambushing. Kirk invents the Picard maneuver, and scores a decisive victory. The battle is all the more dramatic because Kirk (and the audience) does not know that Spock is on the planet. When Kirk fires on the Romulan vessel, we think he killed Spock. Kirk takes an away team down to the planet via shuttle. This victory will be a hollow one if the Romulans get their hands on the Atlantean super weapon.
They land in a ruined alien city. It's a spectacular sight, revealed as they descend through the clouds of the atmosphere. Kirk and company catch up with the Romulans. With Spock's help, they overpower most of the Romulans, except for the Romulan Commander, who escapes. There’s some hand to hand combat, Kirk vs the Romulan Commander, Kirk is pretty angry about Pike’s death, but shows mercy in victory. Lucky for him, because once this concludes the planet unveils its secret . . .
There is no Space Atlantis super weapon. The Atlanteans never went extinct, they're still alive and here! They had simply moved on to “the next phase of their evolution” (Spock’s explanation in Star Trek I) and are omnipotent. They have no use for empire, and have retreated to this planet to explore the universe with their minds. They are far beyond this puny conflict between the Federation and the Romulans, but this alien incursion forces them to to intervene. Had Kirk killed the Romulan, these aliens would have annihilated the human race, but because Kirk showed mercy, they decide that there is hope for humanity after all. Instead, they will eliminate the Romulans. But Kirk saves the Romulan race by pleading for mercy (TOS "Arena"). The Atlanteans impose a truce like the Organians (at least within their system, TOS "Errand of Mercy") and send everyone on their way.
The movie ends on a positive note. A Romulan fleet is defeated by the Federation fleet off screen and the Romulans sue for peace. The Romulan Commander is replaced by a subordinate who earlier in the film, expressed skepticism about this entire endeavor. Kirk communicates with this man over the view screen. This new Romulan commander was both humbled by the Atlanteans and impressed by Kirk's mercy on the planet below. He thanks Kirk, smiles and says “one day" (TNG "The Chase").
Space, the Final Frontier . . . the Enterprise Warps away.
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No, it's been proven that Star Trek all is about the Holy Trinity of Kirk, Spock, and Mc.Coy and with the not so current state Trek was in, I think I can say this with confidence. FUCK The Next Generation, FUCK Deep Space Nine, FUCK Nellix and Voyager, FUCK Enterprise, and FUCK every writtin word by Harve Bennet and Brendon Braga! The Holy Triad is back baby and there is nothing you can do about it!!
Whew now that my Nerd rage has been subsided back to the disscusion.
Personally If they go the big bad guy route it should be someone who can Best all three, and isn't Khan...or a Khan clone for that matter. Honestly with the events of the movie that have taken place...well no past Trek experience can prepare me for Star Trek XII. Hopefully it's going to blow my mind into outer space or an alternate timeline buuuut I don't see that happining. 
What I would love to see is a natural problem or an internal conflict for the main conflict of the story.
EDIT: mynameisgorn that would be really cool to see on screen, I wish I posted that! Good job
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All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I have been personally contemplating the idea that the Red Matter used to time travel, suck in Vulcan and destroy the Nerada worked differently to your usual blackhole and actually punctured a hole through another dimension (think fluidic space/species 8472). The use of this red matter was considered an attack on their dimension and killed millions of their species each time it was used forcing this species in this other dimension to devise a way of coming to our universe. This species is a dark cloud like species (think the black cloud on Lost, dark with flashing electrical current) and cannot survive in our dimension without taking hosts. Whilst in these hosts the humanoid bodies can act as a channel to channel the black cloud abilities such as lightning, telekinesis (think abilities on heroes).
Hmm, I like the idea of a person who originally comes across like this, very commanding, charming etc and who appears to be a genuine person who only wishes peace and is looking out for their people but who is actually very sinister behind the scenes, hell bent on getting their own way and willing to do whatever it takes.
I would imagine a possible character for the part could be a woman who is the queen of her civilisation. An absolute monarchy who has become corrupt through the immense power adorned upon her during her childhood.
It has been made clear to you by several people via several posts in other threads that there is no time paradox, as time travel in Trek creates a new timeline/universe and the original continues to exist separate from it.
I can only conclude from your persistence in claiming it's a paradox and that the original universe is gone and moaning that you're going to ignore the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan is a ridiculous attempt to troll.
Hmm, I like the idea of a person who originally comes across like this, very commanding, charming etc and who appears to be a genuine person who only wishes peace and is looking out for their people but who is actually very sinister behind the scenes, hell bent on getting their own way and willing to do whatever it takes.
I would imagine a possible character for the part could be a woman who is the queen of her civilisation. An absolute monarchy who has become corrupt through the immense power adorned upon her during her childhood.
It has been made clear to you by several people via several posts in other threads that there is no time paradox, as time travel in Trek creates a new timeline/universe and the original continues to exist separate from it.
I can only conclude from your persistence in claiming it's a paradox and that the original universe is gone and moaning that you're going to ignore the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan is a ridiculous attempt to troll.
The next Star Trek movie write itself off easily from the first movie. It will be the story of an angry Vulcan miner, T'Glero, which will seek to kill Spock and destroy earth to take his revenge against him and earth because they arrived just a bit too late to save Vulcan. 
The villian should be Spock Prime. His constant meddling in future events (to prevent loss of life, disaster etc.) causes even greater chaos. The universe does not unfold as it should. He becomes a wanted man (rather vulcan) by other species who send their various assasins to stop him. The Enterprise crew knows however that even his death at this point would cause an even greater tragedy in the timeline paradox, and they go to great lengths to protect him. Now if there was only someone from this timeline's future who could come back to save him.....
Carol Marcus:
It's your baby too and you haven't even seen your son, or paid for child support!
Well, in the new canon, James Kirk was never part of the Axanar mission. Axanar references should also be obscure enough to mean nothing to new fans while providing some continuity porn for the old.
So, for ST XII:
An Orion Crime Lord villain with a fleet of trader/raider/pirate ships and a network of crime syndicate baddies. He's also got some green wimmins, one of whom will inevitably turn into Kirk's love (or at least T&A) interest for the movie.
The Federation has recently made Axanar a protectorate (Prime Directive doesn't apply because the culture has already been severely polluted, long before the UFP came along). The Orion dude is having none of this and is running slaves and stealing dilithium from the planet, in partnership with a Klingon border governor (Secondary bad guy).
The Enterprise is assigned to get to the bottom of it all, resulting in expected interference from the Klingons. The Orion's motivations are simple- greed and profit based in a society whose morals are significantly different than ours.
Such a story ought to give all the characters something interesting to do, allow for a couple of space battle/ chase type scenes, let Kirk get down with a green girl, and introduce the Klingons to the nuCanon. And since it is the nuCanon, if I had my druthers they'd be John M Ford style Klingons.
This would be an action movie, make no mistake about it. The fate of the universe is not at stake, or even Earth. Simply a matter of moral conflict, good vs evil, with some nice character moments/development, fist fights, sex, and smoking phasers. NO TIME TRAVEL.
So, for ST XII:
An Orion Crime Lord villain with a fleet of trader/raider/pirate ships and a network of crime syndicate baddies. He's also got some green wimmins, one of whom will inevitably turn into Kirk's love (or at least T&A) interest for the movie.
The Federation has recently made Axanar a protectorate (Prime Directive doesn't apply because the culture has already been severely polluted, long before the UFP came along). The Orion dude is having none of this and is running slaves and stealing dilithium from the planet, in partnership with a Klingon border governor (Secondary bad guy).
The Enterprise is assigned to get to the bottom of it all, resulting in expected interference from the Klingons. The Orion's motivations are simple- greed and profit based in a society whose morals are significantly different than ours.
Such a story ought to give all the characters something interesting to do, allow for a couple of space battle/ chase type scenes, let Kirk get down with a green girl, and introduce the Klingons to the nuCanon. And since it is the nuCanon, if I had my druthers they'd be John M Ford style Klingons.
This would be an action movie, make no mistake about it. The fate of the universe is not at stake, or even Earth. Simply a matter of moral conflict, good vs evil, with some nice character moments/development, fist fights, sex, and smoking phasers. NO TIME TRAVEL.
SpockPrime
heh, judging by our previous debates, i dont' think you'll like this idea that has also been suggested already, but i want to play! so:
antagonist: OldSpock
raison d'etre: self-righteous inner conviction
themes: OldSpocks inner conflict translates ironically into a new conflict to either break or adhere to the Temporal Prime Directive in the face of his conviction of what is best for the universe. Whether to speak or stay quiet about his knowledge. Federation is mainly opposed because of the Temoporal Prime Directive.
plan: to materialise his vision
strengths: many and varied. Experienced and intellegent.
tools: implacable logic, claim to exclusive and priveledged information
mental state: He's completely sane. Only misguided by his conviction.
ship/force: charismatic persuasion to amass an armada or followers, or falls in with a guerilla group, foreign power, as a justified means to an end (previous echoes: TOS 'patterns of force', novel 'Spock Messiah'). Corruptable and corrupt people generally available who want to profit by knowing the future.
defeat: PineKirk and crew realise that in the new universe OldSpock's predictions overlook opportunities and divergences in reality that contribute to his downfall. Will highlight the crews skills and teamwork in exploiting that blindspot to defeat OldSpock's movement.
other contributaries: The guerilla group have their own agenda and the movement falls by division and conquer by PineKirk and crew. OldSpock realises his mistake and helps PineKirk and crew defeat the monster he's created.
subTheme: peoples attitude to NewSpock when they realise he is OldSpocks precursor. How this will compromise NewSpock.
special request: Absolutely NO time travel!
problems: I don't want OldSpock to die. In interfering, OldSpock breaks his previous utterance 'the universe will unfold as it shoud by itself' and 'there are always possiblities' because he adopts a narrow course of action but i can't think what the specific reason would be apart from generally he has his previous knowledge of the timeline. But it has to be a good reason to change OldSpock into a baddie.
warning: I will probably want to revise this post a lot
antagonist: OldSpock
raison d'etre: self-righteous inner conviction
themes: OldSpocks inner conflict translates ironically into a new conflict to either break or adhere to the Temporal Prime Directive in the face of his conviction of what is best for the universe. Whether to speak or stay quiet about his knowledge. Federation is mainly opposed because of the Temoporal Prime Directive.
plan: to materialise his vision
strengths: many and varied. Experienced and intellegent.
tools: implacable logic, claim to exclusive and priveledged information
mental state: He's completely sane. Only misguided by his conviction.
ship/force: charismatic persuasion to amass an armada or followers, or falls in with a guerilla group, foreign power, as a justified means to an end (previous echoes: TOS 'patterns of force', novel 'Spock Messiah'). Corruptable and corrupt people generally available who want to profit by knowing the future.
defeat: PineKirk and crew realise that in the new universe OldSpock's predictions overlook opportunities and divergences in reality that contribute to his downfall. Will highlight the crews skills and teamwork in exploiting that blindspot to defeat OldSpock's movement.
other contributaries: The guerilla group have their own agenda and the movement falls by division and conquer by PineKirk and crew. OldSpock realises his mistake and helps PineKirk and crew defeat the monster he's created.
subTheme: peoples attitude to NewSpock when they realise he is OldSpocks precursor. How this will compromise NewSpock.
special request: Absolutely NO time travel!
problems: I don't want OldSpock to die. In interfering, OldSpock breaks his previous utterance 'the universe will unfold as it shoud by itself' and 'there are always possiblities' because he adopts a narrow course of action but i can't think what the specific reason would be apart from generally he has his previous knowledge of the timeline. But it has to be a good reason to change OldSpock into a baddie.
warning: I will probably want to revise this post a lot
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I have to admit, it would definitely shake things up - like a Magnitude 9 earthquake. I doubt Nimoy would appreciate it though. He doesn't want SpockPrime going out as a bad guy, even a misunderstood one.
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Setting aside any specific names, I really think it's important to break out of the Khan worship paradigm. A charming, deceptive villain seems the best way to go. I'd also greatly prefer that they do something more interesting than the standard issue megalomaniac. Give the villain a point of view, an arguably good reason for doing what they are doing, something the crew really has to wrestle with.
Yes, i agree. But maybe there's a way to let him live and be a good guy at the end in the classic kind of star trek turnaround.
Nimoy would be so great as a baddie: i recall again that episode of Columbo where he was an utterly convincing baddie doctor. A real nasty well played.
But i'm not sure he could seem that nasty now which is a problem that would have to be solved somehow.
Nimoy would be so great as a baddie: i recall again that episode of Columbo where he was an utterly convincing baddie doctor. A real nasty well played.
But i'm not sure he could seem that nasty now which is a problem that would have to be solved somehow.
For Star Trek XII, my choice for the baddie would be a Starfleet admiral (Nogura, perhaps?) who hates Kirk and is doing everything in his power to take the Enterprise away from him even as events in the Laurentia System take an unexpected turn for the worse...
Some interesting ideas here. I heartily second the John M. Ford Klingons. The Final Reflection is my favourite Trek novel.
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