This is one of the reasons why DS9 is so good for me. There's some real tension, there, although of course it fades between the main characters as the show goes along.
Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek
- Thread starter LancerKind
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This is one of the reasons why DS9 is so good for me. There's some real tension, there, although of course it fades between the main characters as the show goes along.
I don't think anyone is saying the characters hated each other. I suppose you could debate whether or not the regular characters had substantive conflicts, but you can't argue that that was not the intention.
Was this before or after a megavillain started blowing them up, then culminating with a giant megaship crashing into it having to kill thousands at the very least?
As we all know, a Utopian society would never come under attack.
Personally I think utopia is a pipe dream at best. It is nice to think about but it is unreachable so long as such a society is run by flawed beings capable of mistakes and poor judgement.
Don't know what you mean by that, but TNG really wasn't that different from TOS in that interpersonal conflicts came mostly from outside the crew.
I don't think Roddenberry wanted a dysfunctional crew that spent more time fighting each other than bad guys. Any disagreements the crew would have would be relevant to the story at hand rather than be something that carried from episode to episode. But I do think the only real difference between TOS and TNG on this front was how they handled their disagreements--the TOS gang tended to be more vocal with them while the TNG gang tended to internalize them. In that case, you could argue it being a difference between the attitudes of the '60s and the '80s.
It was the nature of the show to do that, IMO. The DS9 gang eventually came together as a family, whereas TOS and TNG were like that from the start.Belz... said:
There was indication that Kirk and McCoy were friends prior to coming to the Enterprise; Kirk and the late Gary Mitchell had known each other since the Academy; and there was likely a friendship between Mitchell and the late Lee Kelso, although that one may have started on the Enterprise.
Good
TNG: Data's Trial, Worf and Klingon stories, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things.
Bad
Worf: "We should do this." or "We shouldn't do this."
Everyone else: "Piss Off!"
It wasn't until the movie First Contact that Worf said these words to Picard:
"If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand!"
TNG: Data's Trial, Worf and Klingon stories, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things.
Bad
Worf: "We should do this." or "We shouldn't do this."
Everyone else: "Piss Off!"
It wasn't until the movie First Contact that Worf said these words to Picard:
"If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand!"
That "retarded vision displayed in the first 2 series of TNG" was pretty much 75% Berman. Half-way through the first season, Roddenberry handed over the reins to Berman and stepped back into a supervisory (i.e., back seat driver) role.
It's been twisted somewhat over the years, but it's really just a term given to his initial idea of a starship with a very diverse crew exploring the Galaxy together in an idealized future.
So what happened to give us season 3+, then ?
Michael Piller joined the show as an executive producer.
shhhh.
"Berman is God" tm.
"Berman is God" tm.
Ah, I didn't know that. Interesting.
Roddenberry's Trek was never a utopia.
Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd, Captain Tracey, Kodos, criminal penitentiaries, and that's just TOS.
Even TNG wasn't as much of a utopia that people think, Tasha's traumatic background was from a failed Federation Colony for example. If Berman was following the "vision", he also introduced rogue admirals (Kennelly and Pressman), and the Maquis.
Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd, Captain Tracey, Kodos, criminal penitentiaries, and that's just TOS.
Even TNG wasn't as much of a utopia that people think, Tasha's traumatic background was from a failed Federation Colony for example. If Berman was following the "vision", he also introduced rogue admirals (Kennelly and Pressman), and the Maquis.
Well I think the idea was that Earth was a Utopia, but even that never fully held true.
As a religious man, Roddenberry's Trek would bother me.
I honestly don't think very it's likely that everybody would be an atheist.
I mean seriously EVERY religion is suppost to be gone?
Did Roddenberry actually know how many of those and how diverse in belief they are when he came up with that idea?
Whatever personal feelings Roddenberry may have had, with Trek he stressed that people were free to believe in whatever religion they wanted, including no religion (the exception seemed to be with religions in which some super computer or machine following corrupted programming was in charge).
