Hey, don't forget poor Cleary, who was working on the transporters before they melted two crewmen. And whoever the dude is who tells Scott he can't do any better right before they end up in the wormhole.
Let's be real, could Captain Decker have pulled it off?
- Thread starter Parallaxis
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Memory Alpha just says [link]:
Assistant engineer
This assistant engineer was working in main engineering during the V'Ger crisis in the 2270s. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)
He was played by an unknown actor. The character's position was verified from the film's script.
The #1 problem of TMP, IMO. The last two thirds of the film are largely just the crew sitting around on the bridge waiting for something to happen rather than actively making something happen.
Yeah. It's always irritated me. They don't attempt communication once V'ger spares them. Once at V'ger they just fly close by for no explained reason. Once the tractor beamed, they finally do try a scan though they are reflected back, but that doesn't mean they can't use passive sensors or even ye old Mk I Eyeballs to look around and try to figure out something. Even if everything they tried failed, it would have raised the stakes because the Ilia Probe would be the only chance they have until Spock takes his rocket ride. Instead, everyone sits on their hands until they're forced to act.
TMP is perhaps the only movie that demonstrates, with background audio, that a lot is going on without express orders from the bridge.
What is clear is that the Enterprise sent friendship messages and the only response they got was the probe. I am sure that cryptography was examining V'Ger's initial message of inquiry but with a single message, likely in binary, to work with, it seems very likely that they were modifying their response without results.
Decker understood his job under Kirk to be recommending alternatives.
Decker didn't get promoted to Captain of the Enterprise despite having the failings being bandied about here. In fact, Kirk approved of him.
If he'd been in command of the ship, he'd have made decisions based on relevant factors other than playing Kirk's safety net.
And Kirk badly needed someone who knew more than he did - if Decker hadn't stayed on as XO, the movie would have ended with the wormhole sequence. KA-BLOOWIE!
Decker didn't get promoted to Captain of the Enterprise despite having the failings being bandied about here. In fact, Kirk approved of him.
If he'd been in command of the ship, he'd have made decisions based on relevant factors other than playing Kirk's safety net.
And Kirk badly needed someone who knew more than he did - if Decker hadn't stayed on as XO, the movie would have ended with the wormhole sequence. KA-BLOOWIE!
I have all of the ADR scripts for the background comm chatter - none of it pushes any of the plot forward, nor does it clear up any logical plotholes. It's only there to demonstrate the basic functions of the Bridge stations and give a sense of verisimilitude to the setting.
But i am very afraid that is where SNW is heading....
Decker had plenty of past experience. If he was, as seems likely, serving at a young age on Disco, he already was used complicated intense situations, and he had the example, for better or worse, of his Father to go on. Kirk was useful on the ship during the V'Ger incident but he wasn't indispensable, unlike Decker and Spock. the ultimate annoyance with the movie is that Earth is the hq for starfleet, and an unfinished ship in local drydock is the only thing they can send after V'ger. At least with TWOK it's plausible, if unlikely, that the training cruise does put Enterprise nearest to Reliant. It's kind of pointless to try and make most of what's not right with TMP work in some kind of group consensus.
It's pretty, it's relaxing, and the script manages the unenforceable gift of not having to have us deal with Stephen Collins again, which turned out to be a good thing.
It's pretty, it's relaxing, and the script manages the unenforceable gift of not having to have us deal with Stephen Collins again, which turned out to be a good thing.
For better or worse, Decker's primary function in TMP is to provide proof that Kirk was indispensable by demonstrating how another commander might have gotten them all killed. And also, being an expendable character, he provides a convenient outlet for V'Ger's ultimate desire to merge with a human.
In-universe, though, I agree with what others have said here, namely that Decker would not have risen to command the Enterprise -- and certainly would not have earned Kirk's recommendation -- if he did not have the experience and judgment to justify such a position. I think Decker was more playing devil's advocate in TMP, since his role was not the commander but that of executive officer and it was part of his duties to provide the captain with alternatives. Plus, he had a chip on his shoulder about Kirk in the beginning as well.
And let's not forget that while Decker's decisions with V'Ger might have gotten everyone killed, Kirk's inexperienced decision when in the wormhole, relative to the newly refit ship, would have gotten them all killed before they ever made it to V'Ger if Decker hadn't been there to countermand the phaser order and instead order photon torpedoes.
In-universe, though, I agree with what others have said here, namely that Decker would not have risen to command the Enterprise -- and certainly would not have earned Kirk's recommendation -- if he did not have the experience and judgment to justify such a position. I think Decker was more playing devil's advocate in TMP, since his role was not the commander but that of executive officer and it was part of his duties to provide the captain with alternatives. Plus, he had a chip on his shoulder about Kirk in the beginning as well.
And let's not forget that while Decker's decisions with V'Ger might have gotten everyone killed, Kirk's inexperienced decision when in the wormhole, relative to the newly refit ship, would have gotten them all killed before they ever made it to V'Ger if Decker hadn't been there to countermand the phaser order and instead order photon torpedoes.
In the novelization they reference Kirk being critical of the phaser design and urged changing it, and somehow he assumed they had changed it during the refit, but they didn’t. Thats not in the movie.
Again the result of the rushed departure. If Kirk had been taking the ship out again under normal circumstances he would have become aware of the new phaser design and would most likely have ordered Scotty to rectify it.
Again the result of the rushed departure. If Kirk had been taking the ship out again under normal circumstances he would have become aware of the new phaser design and would most likely have ordered Scotty to rectify it.
Might have. He's overly cautious, as the XO, but makes no choices that would have gotten everyone killed. Kirk, in command, does.
Decker was mostly fine until the phaser strike advice inside of V'ger. It felt like he had no sane option to suggest.
Well, again, he was giving options. It's an option that probably would have gotten them killed if Kirk went for it, and surely that would have come up as a response to his "Why are you opposed to trying?" had the film not cut away to the Enterprise exterior at that moment.Decker was mostly fine until the phaser strike advice inside of V'ger. It felt like he had no sane option to suggest.
I'd have to look at the scripts, but IIRC in some drafts the tractor beam was drawing the ship towards V'ger's side and a potential collision, only for the maw to open. If that was the intent in the shooting script, Decker's recommendation would seem less suicidal.
Given the number of drafts of the TMP script that were written, I think it's a fair guess that pretty much any possibility you can think of was in a draft at some point.
I’m fairly certain that’s in the October 20, 1977 rough draft, and maybe the early November 1977 draft, too.
I see Spock as a perpetual overachiever motivated by a deep sense of inadequacy at being "not Vulcan enough/not good enough," stemming from his upbringing. But perhaps that's a topic for another thread.
As for recent comments on Decker being there to make sure Kirk is aware of alternative courses of action, he does specifically say so in dialog: "Captain, as your Exec, it's my duty to point out alternatives." And Kirk acknowledges this.
I always felt that if Decker had been in command, not much would have been accomplished because he would have been too cautious, not having Kirk's command instincts from years of experience in deep space dealing with bizarre monsters. So the Enterprise under Decker's command gets eaten by V'Ger, and then Earth and the rest of the solar system get eaten by V'Ger.
Kor
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