Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

[Makarov]

The Most Toys beamed data out before the deed so it was a bit restrained with the main characters

This thread is pretty hostile and it's a shame because there's different viewpoints but its coming down to trading insults sometimes. Everyone has different taste on what Trek they enjoy the most it's all good

 

[Bornin1980something]

I suspect the tension around here might have been heightened by the Covid 19 crisis. I wonder what type of shows people distressed by the crisis are turning to?

 

[Gov Kodos]

A new Trek series making fans happy?

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[AlanC9]

I don't see how it matters. Data and Seven both did the same thing. What does it matter that TNG chickened out on the results?

 

[Hythlodeus]

I suspect the tension around here might have been heightened by the Covid 19 crisis. I wonder what type of shows people distressed by the crisis are turning to?

I have the news on 24/7, tbh. I don't really have the mindset for entertainment right now. My city's on lockdown for a couple of days already and the curve doesn't even begin to flatten. The fact that a lot of medical personel in my country was on a conference two weeks ago in a village we now know is a Covid hotspot is not reassuring either. Two smaller hospitals have already closed because doctors were positive and infected more of the staff

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The Most Toys beamed data out before the deed so it was a bit restrained with the main characters.

TNG being restrained with the main characters ≠ TNG restrained the main characters' behavior. Data pulled the trigger; I don't believe that he had any idea that he was about to get beamed out when he decided to pull it.

That is to say, perhaps there was a subroutine in his positronic brain that calculated the odds that his rescue was imminent, but if there was then I've no doubt that the computed probability was tiny. If he believed he would be rescued in that manner, then there would not only have been no need to have pulled the trigger, but furthermore it would have been counterproductive to decide to do so given the questions it would raise (as we saw).

This thread is pretty hostile and it's a shame because there's different viewpoints but its coming down to trading insults sometimes. Everyone has different taste on what Trek they enjoy the most it's all good

That is so true. With all the different shows and the franchise spanning decades, Star Trek is a big tent. Many arguments between Trek fans start when two fans have latched onto two different and differing parts of the franchise as their respective ideas of what constitutes true Trek.

 

[Lord Garth]

I suspect the tension around here might have been heightened by the Covid 19 crisis. I wonder what type of shows people distressed by the crisis are turning to?

I have no work at my job for the foreseeable future. But I managed to find a gig, working from home. It's a quick fix, not a permanent solution, but I'll be spending most of my time working on that.

Yes, it occurred to me that what's going on with the Coronavirus has led to my far more impassioned posts. But everything I've posted in the past day or two cuts right down to the core of what I think but haven't said. This in particular right here:

That's not about gadgets. That's not about pew-pew. That's human fucking drama. The people against Picard refuse to admit it because they can't get the image of the JJ Abrams films out of their heads, so now that's how they see all new Star Trek whether it's true or not. They won't even stop to consider that maybe they might be wrong. And they are wrong.

I stand by every single word I typed.

Though to add to that, for people who are fans of the Abrams Films, I'm talking about the image of them, not the reality. There's obviously human drama in those films too. Hell, just look at Kirk's birth or Spock's reaction to the destruction of Vulcan, as two very obvious examples.

 

[fireproof78]

This thread is pretty hostile and it's a shame because there's different viewpoints but its coming down to trading insults sometimes. Everyone has different taste on what Trek they enjoy the most it's all good

Everyone has different tastes but with due respect to people who do not like Picard there is a hyper focus on elements that are not center stage in the show. To read some comments one would think it is using "Fuck" every other word while using torture porn every other scene.

Again, I have no problem if people don't like it. But, the disagreement seems to come from a place of overemphasizing the negative to the point of excess rather than relaying what actually happens in the show.

Hell, just look at Kirk's birth or Spock's reaction to the destruction of Vulcan, as two very obvious examples.

I think that Abrams Trek has some of the best dramatic moments in Trek history, including Kirk's birth and Spock's hurried rescue attempt. It's all so deeply human and emotional.

 

[cooleddie74]

The first ten minutes of Trek 2009 are some of the best opening scenes of any movie of the past 15 years.

 

[Greg Cox]

And I don't like Lady Gaga. Overrated piece of crap.

I don't know. Have you seen her "Bad Romance" video? Lots of cool homages to vintage sf movies like ZARDOZ and QUEEN OF BLOOD.

True story: I actually mentioned Lady Gaga in one of my Trek novels . . . and got at least one (very polite) fan letter in protest.

 

[Roboturner913]

Star Trek, and, yes, art in general, has always been political. TOS did not have half-white, half-black aliens in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" or Kirk and the Klingons waging a proxy war on a pre-warp planet in "A Private Little War" because it wasn't taking a side. ("Battlefield:" "racism bad." "Private Little War:" Pro-Vietnam War. Yes, TOS took a side, and it didn't always take the right side.)

And yes, art and storytelling have always been political. Henry V is one of the greatest plays in English-language theatre. It's also a piece of Tudor propaganda on par with anything ever put out by North Korea in terms of how it promotes a cult of personality for a political leader. Like, Henry V literally launched a war of aggression against France that gets thousands of people killed for his own personal enrichment and power-lust, but that play wants us to think of it as a good thing.

Hell, the very first motion picture blockbuster was a film that depicted the Ku Klux Klan as noble modern aristocrats defending "civilized society" from scary black men. (Yes, this is a political stance. It is racist and evil, and it is also a political stance.) The biggest names in early-to-mid 20th Century visaul art were mostly social democrats, socialists, and communists like Pablo Picasso and Diego Rivera whose works reflected their beliefs. Superman comics were essentially a deliberate attempt to use fascist iconography for anti-fascist political messages. Even Norman fucking Rockwell painted The Problem We All Live With.

I am so goddamn tired of this idea that art didn't used to be political. It was always political; you just didn't pay attention.

I wasn't saying what you seem to think I was saying. Of course art has always been political.

My point was that (and I forget exactly how we got from point A to B to C here) is that as a writer (I'm a writer, not a Star Trek writer) it's become increasingly difficult to write characters with any kind of nuance, or God forbid, character flaws. If you want/need the character to be perceived in a particular way, there's pressure to toe the line of the political group the character must necessarily belong to, because sadly enough, people are watching Picard and determining whether JLP is a Democrat or a Republican on a weekly basis, and if there's one instance out of ten where you don't adhere strictly to their standards, suddenly it's a "bad character." It's frustrating.

 

[Lynx]

You misunderstand, you should add her to your modern music sucks list. Just saying Beiber every post is boring.

Truth be told I’ve never been a fan of Heavy Metal. Even Hard Rock is hit or miss for me. Give me a band like the Beatles over that stuff any day of the week.

I love The Beatles! Innovative, trend-settin and amazing music. A relative of mine is a fan of a 70's band called Traffic. Excellent!

Are you referring to Death Metal?

Yes!

I'd trade Wilco or the New Pornographers for Cream in a heartbeat. Maybe even for Zeppelin.

I like Wilco. Haven't heard New Pornographers.

And back then, somebody older than you thought your music sounded like nonsensical racket too. Remember that guy? Don't be that guy.

I've tried for years not to be that guy but the lack of music I like in recent years have probably affected me. However, I still try to find new music I can like. But it's got to be rock!

I think a lot of modern music sucks. I would also put Green Day and Weezer up against any band from the '80s and my childhood for consistent quality and how fun they are to listen to.

New isn't always bad and old isn't always good.

I like Green Day!

A lot of older music sucked too, it's just not remembered. We tend to hold up the best things of a certain period - music, movies, books, cars, architecture, etc - and forget about all the crappy stuff. And there's ALWAYS lots and lots of crappy stuff.

You are correct. I still cringe when I hear New Kids On The Block. But there were a lot of better music to listen to back then.

You have terrible taste and I don't want to be your friend.

I have excellent taste!
And I don't persuade people to be my friends if they don't want to

Star Trek, and, yes, art in general, has always been political. TOS did not have half-white, half-black aliens in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" or Kirk and the Klingons waging a proxy war on a pre-warp planet in "A Private Little War" because it wasn't taking a side. ("Battlefield:" "racism bad." "Private Little War:" Pro-Vietnam War. Yes, TOS took a side, and it didn't always take the right side.)

And yes, art and storytelling have always been political. Henry V is one of the greatest plays in English-language theatre. It's also a piece of Tudor propaganda on par with anything ever put out by North Korea in terms of how it promotes a cult of personality for a political leader. Like, Henry V literally launched a war of aggression against France that gets thousands of people killed for his own personal enrichment and power-lust, but that play wants us to think of it as a good thing.

PIC at least has the decency not to pretend that violence is something that can be sanitized or bowdlerized.

I'll give you a point here. TThere have always been a lot of political stuff in art and storytellin. In fact, NCIS which I really like is highly political but I can stand that due to the quality of the stories and the characters. I can stand it in Star Trek too as long as it isn't too many references to today's messy situation.

I think the answer lies in a Voyager episode called 'Fury.'

You got me there!
I guess you have a point. That was probably the first nail in the coffin for me.

To be fair, the 60s and 70s were also the time of THE TWILIGHT ZONE and THE OUTER LIMITS and THE INVADERS and PLANET OF THE APES and THE OMEGA MAN and SOYLENT GREEN and LOGAN'S RUN and THE ROAD WARRIOR and ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, etc. Post-atomic wastelands, many set in the 1990s, were a cliche.

Dystopias are nothing new. Kinda of depends of which show and movies you gravitated to.

How many classic TZ eps took World War III for granted?

I haven't watched all of those but I assume that some of them were meant to be horror movies. and I do like horror movies and series. Well, at least some of them, not the most apocalyptic ones.

However, The X-files is still a favorite, at least the early seasons.

But when I want to watch a good horror movies or series, I watch Alien#1 (best SF-horror movie ever) or Terror on Elm Street. When I want to watch exciting episodes in a better future, I watch Star Trek.

And remember, I really like "The Black Shore!

I don't know. Have you seen her "Bad Romance" video? Lots of cool homages to vintage sf movies like ZARDOZ and QUEEN OF BLOOD.

True story: I actually mentioned Lady Gaga in one of my Trek novels . . . and got at least one (very polite) fan letter in protest.

I try to stay as far away from Lady Gaga and her music as possible. The only time I watched a whole performance with her was when she turned up at a Rolling Stones concert which was aired on TV. Quite embarrasing because she was the only guest artist that evening who obviously believed that she was the star of the evening.

I can understand the fan who wrote to you. I really hope that Lady Gaga is as well-known in the 24th century as the first rock band where I was a member is today.

 

[fireproof78]

I can stand it in Star Trek too as long as it isn't too many references to today's messy situation.

This might be where newer Trek will struggle. The serialized format doesn't allow the different issues to be tackled from week to week, so the current situation is more up front.

However, at the risk of belaboring the point, Trek has always done this, from TOS and onward.

 

[Greg Cox]

And remember, I really like "The Black Shore!

And I appreciate that!

Honestly, when it comes to vintage stuff versus new stuff, I often seem to have a foot in both camps--or don't know who to root for. Too often it seems that on one side you have the Cranky Old Coots for whom everything has been going downhill since the Good Old Days, and on the other side you have the Callow Youths, who don't know or care about anything made before they were born (or later). The crazy idea that maybe, just maybe every generation has its classics, its potboilers, and its junk seldom seems to be on the table.

Call me eclectic, but I like to think that one can enjoy, say, classic STAR TREK and the new CBS shows, depending on what you're in the mood for. Certainly, when it comes to television, sometimes I want to watch something new and fresh like KILLING EVE or SIREN, and sometimes I just want the comfort of classic TWILIGHT ZONE or TOS ep.

Same thing with "dark" vs. "light" fare. Sometimes you want Singin' in the Rain, sometimes you want Vertigo.

(Says the guy who vegged out to Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter last night.)

 

[Roboturner913]

I've tried for years not to be that guy but the lack of music I like in recent years have probably affected me. However, I still try to find new music I can like. But it's got to be rock!

When I was a teenager I would listen to Led Zeppelin and The Who and my mom would knock on the door and yell at me to turn that racket down. Now I'm an old man listening to August Burns Red and Mastodon and my wife is knocking on the door yelling at me to turn that racket down.

The good stuff is out there, you just have to work a little harder to find it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter

How is it possible to have all those words in the same title?

 

[Lord Garth]

I personally would be worried if I liked the same exact music teenagers like.

Even when I was a teenager, I didn't like what other teenagers liked. Boyz II Men wasn't something I went crazy over. Unlike my classmates.

 

[cooleddie74]

For the Concept is Staggering and I Have Reached My Quota.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

When I was a teenager I would listen to Led Zeppelin and The Who and my mom would knock on the door and yell at me to turn that racket down. Now I'm an old man listening to August Burns Red and Mastodon and my wife is knocking on the door yelling at me to turn that racket down.

I used to drag my wife to avant-jazz shows by the likes of Matthew Shipp, Joe McPhee, William Parker, David S Ware, and the like. I still fear she's going to call in her markers.

 

[Greg Cox]

How is it possible to have all those words in the same title?

Strange but true: It was released back in the 1960s on a double bill with Billy the Kid vs. Dracula. Really.