Less-Than-Perfect?

[Temis the Vorta]

Space opera is a tough genre compared with more popular forms of sci fi - the thinly-disguised cop show and the superhero show. The expense combined with the niche-of-a-niche reduced appeal is definitely a barrier.

It's telling that of 34 sci fi shows in development that I've heard about, only two (already mentioned) are space opera. And it's far from certain either will ever be made. And that's not counting anything that's fantasy/supernatural based - which would double that total.

There's a whole lot of genre stuff being developed, but space opera is notably being ignored, despite what I think is a very strong unmet demand for anything in the genre.

This would be the perfect time for Star Trek to return to TV - it could hoover up not just the Trekkies but everyone who has been chomping at the bit to see something in the genre and might actually disdain Star Trek but is getting desperate now.

 

[xortex]

It's harder because it's more dimensional is all and Dave Stern is quick to point that out very eloquantly. It's like flying a kite. I just sent him my pilot. Wish me luck.

 

[Dukhat]

It's harder because it's more dimensional is all and Dave Stern is quick to point that out very eloquantly. It's like flying a kite. I just sent him my pilot. Wish me luck.

Since you have trouble spelling the easiest of words, I wouldn't get my hopes up about your pilot.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Hey xortex, give us your elevator pitch.

Also, his name is Mark Stern. I hope he doesn't mind you calling him Dave in the cover letter. Nah, I'm sure that won't matter.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Ok this thread is going off in an odd tangent.

Regardless of if/whether/when a new Trek series is made, should the characters (even the alien ones) be more human (with flaws and defects and such) or should it skip forward another eighty years and try to recapture the optimism of TNG?

Thinking of how things are now in the world, I would think that a too-optimistic series would fall flat. I'm not meaning that this proposal should lack hope and vision for the future, but showing the trials and tribulations people have to go through to get there would make them seem worth it.

 

[RandyS]

If you want characters that are less than perfect, then jumping 80 years after the TNG era might not be the way to go. On the other hand, a series set in the 90 year gap between the end of ENTERPRISE and the beginning of TOS. A series set in the early years of the Federation, showing how the different cultures had to learn to live together under the same government banner practically lends itself to a "less than perfect" concept, don't you think?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

This is how these threads always go:

Trekkie 1: "So, maybe in the next show, characters shouldn't be so boring and perfect."

Trekkie 2: "NUUUU!! IT'LL RUIN GENE'S PERFECT VISION OF HUMANITY! BESIDES, YOU ALREADY GOT ENOUGH OF THAT SHIT WITH BSG!! WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT STAR TREK TO BE GRIMDARK!?!?!?"

Trekkie 1: ">_>"

 

[xortex]

Wait, wait, I just e-mailed the thing to him and two others and Mr. Howe, didn't include a cover letter or names yet but I could do the music as well. Eloquent? Send my your addy and I'll send you the treatment, Temis.

 

[Shanndee]

Ok this thread is going off in an odd tangent.

Regardless of if/whether/when a new Trek series is made, should the characters (even the alien ones) be more human (with flaws and defects and such) or should it skip forward another eighty years and try to recapture the optimism of TNG?

I think the characters should definitely be more "human". That's what I loved about DS9. It gave us complex characters that were sometimes dark/gritty. They grew over the course of the series, and they were in pursuit of that perfect, optimistic state.

That is what I would like to see...flawed characters in pursuit of something better. If it needs to take place in a more tumultuous time frame (say between ENt and TOS) to be accepted by fans so be it.

 

[AviTrek]

It's harder because it's more dimensional is all and Dave Stern is quick to point that out very eloquantly. It's like flying a kite. I just sent him my pilot. Wish me luck.

Since you have trouble spelling the easiest of words, I wouldn't get my hopes up about your pilot.

Since he can't write in standard English sentence structure, I think spelling is the least of his concerns.

Ok this thread is going off in an odd tangent.

Regardless of if/whether/when a new Trek series is made, should the characters (even the alien ones) be more human (with flaws and defects and such) or should it skip forward another eighty years and try to recapture the optimism of TNG?

Thinking of how things are now in the world, I would think that a too-optimistic series would fall flat. I'm not meaning that this proposal should lack hope and vision for the future, but showing the trials and tribulations people have to go through to get there would make them seem worth it.

As Temis has said, it all depends on the target network. A Star Trek show on CBS will have very different characters than a show on Sy Fy. If the show is on FX or AMC then the characters will be even more different. You can't say what a generic Star Trek show should have because there is no such thing as a generic Star Trek show.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Regardless of if/whether/when a new Trek series is made, should the characters (even the alien ones) be more human (with flaws and defects and such) or should it skip forward another eighty years and try to recapture the optimism of TNG?

The century the series is set in doesn't need to dictate the tone. They shouldn't use TNG as the template because the TV biz has changed so completely that TNG would flop hard today. Just look at the sinking ratings of Terra Nova - an episodic, family-friendly show that deals in familiar formulas is not what the sci fi audience wants, and the mainstream network audience doesn't particularly want sci fi.

Genre shows have to survive on cable, where the best-rated shows are pretty tough stuff - Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones.

The real question is, can Star Trek survive on cable at all and still retain its identity? Even DS9 was fundamentally optimistic, especially compared with the nightmarish stuff they throw at us on cable.

I do think there's a way to work out a compromise. Falling Skies on TNT is the best template. It's fairly non-gritty for a series about the remnants of the human race battling an alien invasion, and even a bit sappy by cable standards. It got strong ratings over the summer. Tonally, it's on the happy side of cable (and TNT probably has different expectations than AMC or FX would) and very comparable to DS9.

OTOH, Once Upon a Time is doing great on ABC, so maybe it's not time to sound the death-knell for genre shows on broadcast. But my hunch is that fantasy, being female-skewing, has a big advantage in that milieu over sci fi.

 

[The Castellan]

I was just having a muse on what if a new series wasn't focused on the crew of the Enterprise, or the newest ship ouf of dry-dock, or a key starbase on the front? What if it was an older ship, with a less-than-perfect crew, people who had flaws and issues, with a lot of screen time given over to them facing their demons and seeing if they would fight or flee (rather than pulling their phaser on every alien they come across).

Just a thought that came to me. Anyone got any opinions, comments, etc?

I have a comic that I have in mind to make, and here's what I have in mind:

Mind you, I am still pondering if this should be in the era between TOS and TWoK, or in the TNG era.

Spoiler

"A young captain has been given her first command (still thinking on what ship to use), and she's a Vulcan who's been raised by human parents, and while she's learned some of her heritage, she's not sure how the universe is going to look upon her, since she's got the Vulcans having their eyes on her, and worried that humans might see her as novelty.

The first officer is a Dalek who's been a key figure behind the scenes of the federation since its inception, an unsung hero. Going to be interesting how people will see him, as his species are considered one of the scourges of the galaxy.

The acting Lt. Commander is a ally of Starfleet, another alien raised on a human colony, deep within the neutral zone, that was founded before the Romulan/Earth War. She's not sure of where she came from, due to having been the abandoned baby on the doorstep, and while she is an attractive woman, she's biologically a male, apparently from a species who's 'male' and 'females' are the same, just different plumbing. She's a genius with warp propulsion and the the intricacies of time itself.

Another Lt. is an Orion, a former slave woman who's been freed by a Starfleet crew, and feeling that the joining was the best way to show her gratitude. Also, she could be helpful when dealing with the Orion Syndicate, and has no regrets that she's going to be betraying her own people.

A young Andorian ensign, on her second assignment, comes from a wealthy, important family. She had no obligations or needs, and could have had the easy life, but she chose to enter Statfleet so she could prove to her peers, and several of her relatives that she is not some spoiled brat, born with a silver spoon in her mouth. Also, members of her family, and some close friends were massacred during a disastrous Dalek attack, and is not thrilled, to say the least, about a Dalek being her superior officer.

The chief medical officer (though I might make him, instead the chief engineer, though I am not sure, yet), one of the few humans on board this ship, is a swashbuckling character who fights with a sword, a gun, and his fists. From the Island of Jamaica was born to high class parents, and so he was educated the proper way, with years of private school, topped off with a prestigious charm and finishing School. He left there to join Starfleet after he signed up with some biochemical corporations to help them produce better treatments and research, but found out that his skills were not being challenged. Still working on weather to make him the ship's doctor or engineer.

I have other characters in mind, but I don't wanna give away too much."

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I like the idea of the late-22nd/early-23rd century era, it would be a time of great change for the quadrant as the Federation finds its feet and starts to grow.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I like the idea of the late-22nd/early-23rd century era, it would be a time of great change for the quadrant as the Federation finds its feet and starts to grow.

ENT done right, I'd go for that. The idea of the 22nd C being as sanitized as TNG was always implausible and worse, it was a boring approach when a much more interesting one was possible. The 22nd C should have been more dangerous, grungy and unenlightened, and Starfleet more definitely military, so that there was a believable throughline from the 22nd to the 23rd to the 24th C.

 

[MemoryOmicron]

I would have liked to have seen more mobility for the main characters of a Star Trek series. I don't believe that members of the world's militaries would spend seven years at the same posting. I would have liked to have seen characters do their couple of years at a post and then move on to new postings. The characters should also go up the promotion ladder. This would allow new characters and new character arcs to be introduced to keep the series from getting stale.

I also find that service in Starfleet is not hazardous enough for the main characters. People put themselves in harm's way everyday when they serve in the military or emergency services. People get seriously and/or permanently injured or killed in the line of duty. It seems that only harm comes to a main character when an actor is not happy and wants to leave the series.

I would have found it much more interesting if Jean-Luc Picard had been permanently altered by his assimilation by the Borg. That Doctor Crusher wasn't able to miraculous remove all the Borg implants. It would have been much more interesting if Picard was part-cyborg after his ordeal with the Borg. Or perhaps, Picard would have never been retrievable and he would have stayed a Borg and would have continued to be a threat. The hero becomes the villain.

The same goes for Worf's spinal injury in TNG "Ethics." There always seems to be a miracle cure if a main character has a disease, injury, or ailment.

If Worf was truly devoted to honor, duty, and sacrifice, he should not have come back for Jadzia in DS9 "Change of Heart."

I believe that it would be much more interesting if the characters were much more mortal and the risks to their physical bodies much greater. There is frequently a cheat in which a character who has sacrificed him or herself in the line of duty can be resurrected. Data's sacrifice in Star Trek: Nemesis falls flat because Data downloaded himself to B4.

 

[xortex]

Pat, listen, I'm sorry, but you're no longer needed. We have to fire you. It seems you've been killed by the Borg. Hey, it's not my call. Some snotty nose kid wants to score some points with the big shots up above. Now am I going to get in the way of him showing some gumption, some grambas and trying to get ahead in life? C'mon, you'll get over it. They'll be plenty of other things you can do and other roles.

I don't even think Rick Berman is up to that. Patrick's Stewart's agent is a Borg.

 

[The Overlord]

This is how these threads always go:

Trekkie 1: "So, maybe in the next show, characters shouldn't be so boring and perfect."

Trekkie 2: "NUUUU!! IT'LL RUIN GENE'S PERFECT VISION OF HUMANITY! BESIDES, YOU ALREADY GOT ENOUGH OF THAT SHIT WITH BSG!! WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT STAR TREK TO BE GRIMDARK!?!?!?"

Trekkie 1: ">_>"

Exactly there is a huge middle ground between everything is perfect and happy and everything is dark and gritty.

I actually like nuBGS, but I don't think that's what Star Trek should be. But I do think if they are going to have another star trek show, it should be different, avoid a lot of the old Star Trek cliches, break the mold a bit. Star Trek needs to get out of its comfort zone. Voyager and Enterprise felt too smilar to TNG, like the writers were just trying to recycle the same formula, over and over again. A Trek series needs to be a bit more modern and not just try to ape TNG.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

When (not if - it's inevitable) Star Trek returns to TV, it will be on cable because broadcast is hostile territory to sci fi now, which rules out a lot of the "comfort zone" issues anyway, because those are characteristic of broadcast. The characters cannot be perfect plastic people, the stories can't be based on the usual cliched plots, the moral landscape will have to be greyer.

I would have liked to have seen more mobility for the main characters of a Star Trek series. I don't believe that members of the world's militaries would spend seven years at the same posting. I

...

I also find that service in Starfleet is not hazardous enough for the main characters.

...

There is frequently a cheat in which a character who has sacrificed him or herself in the line of duty can be resurrected. Data's sacrifice in Star Trek: Nemesis falls flat because Data downloaded himself to B4.

The story following a ship's crew rather than a character and the immunity of major characters to death are just part of the Star Trek formula that could easily be changed on cable. However, it will still be true that the story needs to cohere around something - maybe follow one character's Starfleet career to other postings, but the story would get to diffuse following seven characters' careers. And even on cable, it's unusual for a major character to be killed. That's too disruptive to the story for it to happen very frequently.

I'm totally with ya on B4. Before I saw Nemesis, somebody told me that "one of the characters dies" and I instantly knew it would be the one character that they can resurrect for the next movie. Cheap-ass, predictable writing like that is why I'm glad there was no next movie for TNG or the Berman regime.

 

[BillJ]

I was just having a muse on what if a new series wasn't focused on the crew of the Enterprise, or the newest ship ouf of dry-dock, or a key starbase on the front? What if it was an older ship, with a less-than-perfect crew, people who had flaws and issues, with a lot of screen time given over to them facing their demons and seeing if they would fight or flee (rather than pulling their phaser on every alien they come across).

Just a thought that came to me. Anyone got any opinions, comments, etc?

it sounds like pretty much everything else on TV currently. Thing I like about Trek is that these people are headed into the unknown because they want to.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

it sounds like pretty much everything else on TV currently.

There's a space opera series on TV currently? What's it called, when does it air and why didn't anyone tell me?