Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No marketing

[Trekkin]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

I read or heard somewhere (I have a feeling it was from Christopher) that the writers of Nemesis (whichever one came up with that part) didn't mean to imply a mind transfer at all. B4 humming 'Blue Skies' was just meant to show that a small part of Data (his memories) were living on and helping B4, but B4 would still be his own person.

Nonetheless, the final product sure looked like a brain-jacking.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Really? We know we can use blood to treat people, even now. Plus, we can revive some people who are considered clinically dead. Yet you consider what happened in Into Darkness stretches credibility farther than how Spock was revive in The Search for Spock?!?

Absolutely! Besides, at least a good portion of The Search For Spock was given over to the Fal-tor-pan ceremony, and it was treated far better as a plot device than the Khan super blood which was used as the ultimate quick fix, shoe horned in to the last 5 minutes of Darkness as the ultimate in terrible deux ex machinas.

And a rapidly aging proto-matter induced clone isn't?

Good thing he stopped aging at the right time. And there just happened to be a ceremony/ritual to place the very conveniently near by consciousness into this aged to perfection body.

The "super blood" was introduced at the start of the film and mentioned again later in the film. Setting up the use at the end. "Chekhov's Gun".

Yep. Khan clearly already understood what he could do with 23rd century tech and his augmented abilities and healing process. McCoy just had to figure out why there was a part of Khan that refused to die (a nod to "Space Seed.").

Sorry, I buy in to Khan's blood far more easily than Fal-tor-pann ceremony and Vulcan mysticism.

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

The rules of fictional universes are generally accepted with easy suspension of disbelief so long as the authors follow their own rules. Star Trek may make that more difficult with its bent toward scientific believability or reasoning and its roots and predictive nature in and about our real world.

So the relevant question may be: Which rules of the Star Trek universe were broken in the above examples?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

The rules of fictional universes are generally accepted with easy suspension of disbelief so long as the authors follow their own rules. Star Trek may make that more difficult with its bent toward scientific believability or reasoning and its roots and predictive nature in and about our real world.

So the relevant question may be: Which rules of the Star Trek universe were broken in the above examples?

None. Miracle cures and a "mobile" consciousness are with in the rules of Star Trek.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

None. Miracle cures and a "mobile" consciousness are with in the rules of Star Trek.

This. McCoy pulled the rabbit out of his hat quite a few times in TOS.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

It seems that most of the "faults" in nuTrek are also present in so-called PrimeTrek.
Any fiction will start to fall apart if you look long enough and dig deep enough. It wouldn't BE fiction if it didn't contain some element that doesn't/wouldn't/never did happen in real life.
Star Trek attempts to cover over that truth by using psuedo-scientific jargon and the occasional factual reference, but in the end its still fiction, and whether or not you consider some plot element to be "ridiculous" is almost entirely based on your subjective point of view.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

None. Miracle cures and a "mobile" consciousness are with in the rules of Star Trek.

This. McCoy pulled the rabbit out of his hat quite a few times in TOS.

Heck, Uhura had her entire mind wiped by Nomad, but was back to normal with no ill-effects by the very next episode.

Can you imagine the fan rage if the new movies tried something like that?

And let's not forget the time Barclay turned into a spider-monster but was easily cured with some magic DNA over the course of a commercial break . . .

 

[Squiggy]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

... shoe horned in to the last 5 minutes of Darkness as the winner in the lazy deux ex machina competition.

Congrats. You just described just about every episode of Star Trek.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

And completely failed at describing and spelling 'deus ex machina'.

Sorry. I know that's nitpicky and usually let stuff like that go. It's just when it's coupled with not using the term correctly, it really stands out.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Less than 270 days till the movie comes out. Doesn't it seem like STID just came out? Maybe it's because I never tire of watching it.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

And completely failed at describing and spelling 'deus ex machina'.

Sorry. I know that's nitpicky and usually let stuff like that go. It's just when it's coupled with not using the term correctly, it really stands out.

Maybe he was talking about the French equivalent, where all plot lines not wrapped up by the end of July are put on hold for a month while everyone heads south for a vacation.

 

[Mudd]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Really? We know we can use blood to treat people, even now. Plus, we can revive some people who are considered clinically dead. Yet you consider what happened in Into Darkness stretches credibility farther than how Spock was revive in The Search for Spock?!?

Absolutely!

oldTrek, clever as it often was with science, was nonetheless chock full of irredeemably unscientific nonsense that fans simply forgave for no better reason than that they liked it. What happens in TSFS is unsalvageable fantasy bullshit, and that's the end of the matter.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

And completely failed at describing and spelling 'deus ex machina'.

Sorry. I know that's nitpicky and usually let stuff like that go. It's just when it's coupled with not using the term correctly, it really stands out.

Maybe he was talking about the French equivalent, where all plot lines not wrapped up by the end of July are put on hold for a month while everyone heads south for a vacation.

Je vous trouve magnifique!

 

[Squiggy]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Really? We know we can use blood to treat people, even now. Plus, we can revive some people who are considered clinically dead. Yet you consider what happened in Into Darkness stretches credibility farther than how Spock was revive in The Search for Spock?!?

Absolutely!

oldTrek, clever as it often was with science, was nonetheless chock full of irredeemably unscientific nonsense that fans simply forgave for no better reason than that they liked it. What happens in TSFS is unsalvageable fantasy bullshit, and that's the end of the matter.

TMP: Giant Robot cloud eats everything in its path.
TWoK: Created a new planet using "proto-matter".
TSfS: Resurrected a dead Vulcan using the same "pro-matter".
TVH: Time travel.
TFF: Traveled to the center of the galaxy (a couple of hours away) to encounter a Creature who could shoot lasers out His eyes. Amen.
TUC: The only crazy lack of science is McCoy not knowing anything about the anatomy of the Federation's biggest enemy even after being able to magically scan them using his magical medical scanner.


That's all good. Magic blood though? #childhoodrapist

 

[BillJ]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

That's all good. Magic blood though? #childhoodrapist

I honestly don't get it. Especially considering using blood for medical treatment is far more scientific than many of the things Trek has expected us to buy over the years.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/blood-transfusion/basics/why-its-done/prc-20021256

There's this gem...

Cancer

Cancer may decrease your body's production of red blood cells, white blood cells and platelets by impacting the organs that influence blood count, such as the kidneys, bone marrow and the spleen. Radiation and chemotherapy drugs also can decrease components of the blood. Blood transfusions may be used to counter such effects.

But what does the Mayo Clinic know?

 

[Mudd]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

The Genesis Device itself is just unbelievable bullshit on every level.

It "creates the conditions to sustain life." Which means...

...Step One: they build and test this thing in a cave, and it turns out that the "matix" encourages the growth of plants (and waterfalls!) at "a substantially accelerated rate."

...Step Two: they send out a starship looking for a dead planet to shoot their torpedo at. They expect that the torpedo will build mountains, oceans, and all that jazz - but apparently it's really really hard to find a lifeless space body anywhere on this end of the Galaxy...

...EXCEPT THAT they needn't have bothered with all that searching because it turns out that their torpedo can create A PLANET AND A FUCKING SUN OUT OF SPACE GAS!!!

Who knew?

Bet Carol was surprised by that, huh? Think maybe she misplaced a decimal point or something in some of her calculations? Serendipity!

 

[JWPlatt]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Yeah, how cool is all that?!

 

[Mudd]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Well, it's almost as cool as a starship that can function as a submarine - just less scientifically plausible or believable.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

The Genesis Device itself is just unbelievable bullshit on every level.

It "creates the conditions to sustain life." Which means...

...Step One: they build and test this thing in a cave, and it turns out that the "matix" encourages the growth of plants (and waterfalls!) at "a substantially accelerated rate."

...Step Two: they send out a starship looking for a dead planet to shoot their torpedo at. They expect that the torpedo will build mountains, oceans, and all that jazz - but apparently it's really really hard to find a lifeless space body anywhere on this end of the Galaxy...

...EXCEPT THAT they needn't have bothered with all that searching because it turns out that their torpedo can create A PLANET AND A FUCKING SUN OUT OF SPACE GAS!!!

Who knew?

Bet Carol was surprised by that, huh? Think maybe she misplaced a decimal point or something in some of her calculations? Serendipity!

Well be fair, David did use protomatter. So --

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: Less than a year away + we know nothing about this film/ No market

Any clue as to what "proto-matter" actually is? Is it made of tachyons or midi-chlorian juice?