Spoilers Legend of the Sea Devils grade and discussion thread

[The Nth Doctor]

In a swashbuckling special adventure, the Doctor, Yaz and Dan come face to fin with one of the Doctor’s oldest adversaries, the Sea Devils. Why has legendary pirate queen Madam Ching come searching for a lost treasure? What terrifying forces lurk beneath the oceans of the 19th century? And did Yaz really have to dress Dan up as a pirate?

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Easter is just around the corner. But more importantly, so is Doctor Who as are the long-awaited return of the Sea Devils!

Just as exciting is the inclusion of Ching Shih. I first learned about her a few years ago from A.V. Club's Wiki Wormhole article about her and I highly everyone read up on her. She's fascinating and worthy of her own film/series, but this will do for now.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I enjoyed this quite a bit although it felt like it ended a little too quick despite a runtime of 50 minutes. Unsurprisingly, the Sea Devils' primary goal is to rid the Earth of humans yet again, if by a new manner.

I do wish Ching Shih had a bit more to do and with The Doctor instead of just Dan but I get why they did the split that way. Despite my feelings about Yaz seemingly out of nowhere falling for The Doctor at this point, I do like how the episode addressed the situation and why it wouldn't work for The Doctor. And it's always good to have a River Song reference!

One thing did bother me but it's just a small nitpick: Why would Ching Shih refer to Ursa Major and Polaris instead of the Chinese equivalent? That took me right out of the story for a moment.

 

[Seven of Five]

It was decent enough. It didn't grab me as much as the New Year special, but there were some nice moments throughout.

The trailer for Jodie's final episode looked really good though, and I hope she goes out with a bang.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Decent episode, Legend Of The Sea Devils- best Chibbers-era special, certainly. Best standalone episode since... proably Praxaeus. (Tempted to say Villa Deodati but that turned out to not be standalone).
As for the Centenary- huzzah for the returning ladies, but really I wanna see River show up while she still has the chance.

 

[Samurai8472]

Oh I guess I didn't quote understand till recently. So the centenary special is it for Jodie? I thought we were getting the BBC anniversary special and then her final episode.

Judging by the trailer we're not getting any past Doctor's involvement just the previous companions.

 

[Pauln6]

The episode was too rushed. I've been watching Pertwee episodes and the pacing, while occasionally too slow, does allow you to enjoy the guest cast.

 

[Starkers]

There was stuff to like here, nice to see Crystal Yu who I remembered from Casualty a few years ago. The effects ranged from ropey to very good, the guest cast were great and the Sea Devils were fantastic, but the pacing...

Why couldn't this have been an hour? (I know it was supposed to be a regular episode) The story and the guest cast needed time to breathe. Sometimes the breakneck pace of Nu Who (sorry @The Nth Doctor) can work really well, but at others you really miss the time the classic era could take to establish mood and characters. It felt rushed, felt like scenes were skipped.

And blow me down if Chibnall didn't pull his trick from The Timelsss children. The Doctor prepares to save herself but have no fear, random guest star will take her place and sacrifice himself!

As for the Doctor and Yaz. I just don't feel it, Madip and Whittaker might have a blast as friends but that chemistry doesn't translate on screen, for me at least. I do wonder whether fans of that particular ship was pleased it was addressed, or annoyed it didn't go anywhere?

Taken on its own terms this was fine. If it'd been written as episode 7 of an RTD or Moffat season it would have been really enjoyable , but as a stand-alone special it was enjoyable enough but, well not very special.

Looks like they're setting up Dan's exit already. What are the odds on Yaz buying the farm?

 

[RevdKathy]

I had trouble with this one. The 'incidental' music was too loud, and the dialogue too quiet and too rushed. I had to concentrate hard to follow, which seriously impaired my enjoyment of it.

It felt rushed in other ways too. Too much plot for the time available, especially stopping to waste some on the team dynamic emotions. We had time for lots of wistful stares from the Doctor, but only because she gabbled a lot of her lines. I know people these days have a short attention span but this felt indigestible.

Then there were the cost savings... the sea devils' ship is controlled by a handle identical to the one in the Tardis. Couldn't we even afford a lick of paint to change the colour of it?

I'd have overlooked some of that had the plot been worth it, but frankly it wasn't. And depended on a load of loose ends. What was the yellow crystal? Where did it come from? And where did it go? Who had used it to trap the sea devil? And why, if, as the doctor said, they were conflict averse? The emotional value of the pirate's hostage children was quite lost by the fact we never saw them... did they even exist? And why did the random bloke decide to sacrifice himself?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Why couldn't this have been an hour? (I know it was supposed to be a regular episode) The story and the guest cast needed time to breathe. Sometimes the breakneck pace of Nu Who (sorry @The Nth Doctor) can work really well, but at others you really miss the time the classic era could take to establish mood and characters. It felt rushed, felt like scenes were skipped.

It felt rushed in other ways too. Too much plot for the time available, especially stopping to waste some on the team dynamic emotions. We had time for lots of wistful stares from the Doctor, but only because she gabbled a lot of her lines. I know people these days have a short attention span but this felt indigestible.

Completely agreed with both of you, (except the "Nu" part ). I've often missed the slower pace of classic Who and I feel like the modern show doesn't take a breath half the time. My favorite episodes have either been two-parters or quieter adventures. Or ones that are perfectly paced like "The Doctor's Wife" and "The God Complex."

Taken on its own terms this was fine. If it'd been written as episode 7 of an RTD or Moffat season it would have been really enjoyable , but as a stand-alone special it was enjoyable enough but, well not very special.

That's how I felt, too. Not bad on its own as part of a regular season but as a special, it falls short. That's how I felt about "Planet of the Dead" and "The Waters of Mars" (although the latter's final minutes are separate from the rest).

Looks like they're setting up Dan's exit already. What are the odds on Yaz buying the farm?

Considering what we see in the trailer, I'm guessing Yaz will be fine. But who knows...

The emotional value of the pirate's hostage children was quite lost by the fact we never saw them... did they even exist?

While I agree with your larger point, having read up on Ching Shih again recently, I knew that she did have children that age at that time (and Crystal Yu is almost the exact age for 1807's Ching) so that didn't bother me quite as much. But one shouldn't have to know that information to feel the necessary emotional stakes.

 

[Starkers]

Then there were the cost savings... the sea devils' ship is controlled by a handle identical to the one in the Tardis. Couldn't we even afford a lick of paint to change the colour of it?

I noticed that as well!

That's how I felt, too. Not bad on its own as part of a regular season but as a special, it falls short. That's how I felt about "Planet of the Dead" and "The Waters of Mars" (although the latter's final minutes are separate from the rest).

To be fair I feel exactly the same about those two episodes.

A few other thoughts. Definitely felt like their were linking scenes missing, and gotta love the Doctor giving Dan a Sea Devil sword. "Only in case of emergency" next thing you know Dan's slaughtered half a dozen Sea Devils!

 

[StCoop]

More than any episode so far this one really screamed COVID-era production. Of course the late nature of it's commisioning and shorter than normal pre-production time didn't help.

As others have said a perfectly OK mid-series episode rather than any sort of Special.

 

[Steve Roby]

It was rushed, it was clearly affected by Covid-related issues, but I still enjoyed it, and got a kick out of one line in particular: "No ship, Sherlock!" There were enough good moments to make me happy, and as for Revdkathy's questions, some of them were answered well enough for me and others didn't need to be answered. A few more minutes of dialogue would have helped with a couple of them, though.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Thought it was pretty shit. The editing was bad throughout, to the point where I thought some scenes had been missed out. The first meeting of the Doctor the Sea Devil was particularly terrible, couldn't follow what was going on at all. The fight scene on the ship was really bad too. Basically any time the sea devil had to do anything the editing chopped it up to a distracting degree, so I guess they had a hard time making the suit look good in motion.

Madame Ching seemed to barely do anything? The male pirate (can't remember the name sorry!) ended up being more important.

Don't buy Doctor/Yaz at all either. Mandip Gill is good but we still don't have much personality for Yaz yet and I really don't beleive that she's the one companion the Doctor would think of settling down with.

 

[Relayer1]

'Twas shite.

Trailer was interesting however. I didn't recognise Tegan at first and never liked her (or Nyssa) but it'll be good to see Ace again.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

so, did i get that right? That teh sea devils masks were rather static and they used CGI distortion filter to simulate facial (and neck) movement when speaking?
There were definitely some budget or logitics bottle necks visible.

Overall, I think the episode couldn't pull of the dramatic seriousness it tried to achieve. With a bit more of a light hearted villain, it would habe worked better for me.

And regarding the trailer, the Master gave me some serious Curd of the Fatal Death vibes.

 

[Mr Awe]

Gave it a 7. It was mildly entertaining. It felt rushed, which made it hard (for me at least) to get absorbed in the story. I didn't have that problem with Eve of the Daleks. The plot felt extraordinarily thin and there was a lot of standing around talking, which is fairly typical for this era. I really didn't feel connected to any of the guest stars. I wanted to like the Pirate Queen, but it never felt like we really got to know her.

That all said, I didn't dislike it, but it just didn't suck me in for all those reasons.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I forgot to mention a very annoying production goof which annoyed me.
In the scene where they try to navigate by the stars, the pirate lady located Ursa Minor and Poaris.
But she looks at a part of the sky with the moon on full display.
Which means she wasn’t looking north at all or the moon was in a very strange place it would never appear in.

The scene was too short for me to see if they got the actual constellation(s) right.

 

[Orac Zen]

What an incoherent mess. Nice to see the Sea Devils but this was just a lot of stuff thrown together that made little or no sense. Whatever plot there may have been was pretty much invisible. Of course, the fact I've had a crap day may not have helped, but still. This was just all over the place and...yeah. An incoherent mess for this viewer. Jodie Whtttaker deserves much better.

As for the Doctor and Yaz. I just don't feel it, Madip and Whittaker might have a blast as friends but that chemistry doesn't translate on screen, for me at least.

No, you're not alone there. Mandip Gil somehow manages to make quite a bit out of next to nothing but the fact remains that Yaz has had no character development whatsoever and I genuinely cannot take her even remotely seriously as a person, let alone as any sort of "love interest" for the Doctor.

 

[Starkers]

I'd forgotten one of the early bits that annoyed. Just when did the Doctor and co set up the net to capture the Sea Devil? Or was it improvised at the time. Either way it seemed to come out of nowhere which shouldn't have happened.

As others have said Covid restrictions and other issues definitely seemed to impact on this way more than they did Eve of the Daleks.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I forgot to mention a very annoying production goof which annoyed me.
In the scene where they try to navigate by the stars, the pirate lady located Ursa Minor and Poaris.
But she looks at a part of the sky with the moon on full display.
Which means she wasn’t looking north at all or the moon was in a very strange place it would never appear in.

The scene was too short for me to see if they got the actual constellation(s) right.

Heh, I was so distracted by her saying Ursa Major and Polaris in the first place that I completely missed that glaring error!